I actually am lowkey wondering if this is going to surface in Shadowlands. I feel there’s something we don’t yet know about what Sylvanas did to Derek. Initially she was warping his mind in Dazar’alor… but when he was rescued, he was in the HEART of enemy territory. Almost as if she wanted him to be freed. I’m not sure even he’s aware of it, but she did something to him, I bet.
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this thread was a RIDE i’d like to ask everyone involved to never do anything like this ever again
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Not really counting on it, but I too hope Derek’s storyline won’t just be dropped.
I mean, I don’t wish the guy any harm and the whole thing was pretty ugly, without a doubt.
But right now it seems he was nothing but a plot device to drive home the point how evil Sylvanas is ( same as Zelling ), and it just feels kind of anti-climactic.
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What could they possibly do with him that won’t lead to him being a walking reminder of how evul Sylvanas is?
I’ll venture a guess here.
I think the Derek plot is fallout from the change in story direction. He was supposed to have a larger role in the story until it changed, and then they did their best to somehow shoehorn him into the new plot while also getting rid of him as fast as possible, since the new story had no real need of him.
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I have honestly no idea. I guess I’m just frustrated because his whole story arc made so little sense to me. Then again, the same is true for the most part of the horde war campaign.
This might be the most likely explanation, yes.
It was Derek who said “Yes that was the plan”. Jaina stooped the moment she heard his voice.
Being raised from the dead does not make you automatically a member of the Forsaken, by his family and nation connections, Proudmoore was Alliance and therefore part of the enemy faction.
In a Total War scenario there’s no holds barred against what tactics you use against the enemy.
In taking out a major enemy asset, in this case Jaina Proudmoore, all methods are fair game.
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As Sylvanas’ plan was never to kill less Horde and Alliance, but rather to kill more of them, if anything the only thing she likely would have expected from Derek killing one of his family members would be even angrier retaliation from the Kul’Tirans against the Horde and making the war even bloodier than it already was being.
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Exactly. People love to forget that the Horde didn’t go looking for Derek Proudmoore; they went looking for Marshal M. Valentine, and got lucky.
We probably also shouldn’t mention that–in an incredible twist of logic on Child-King Anduin’s part–it was Jaina and the Alliance who invaded Dazar’alor and killed King Rastakhan, in an attempt to create a rift between the Horde and Zandalari…even though the Zandalari would clearly see the Alliance invading and the Horde defending, and thus grow even closer as allies. o_O’
Seriously, people need to stop looking at Jaina–as well as the rest of the Alliance–as these magical Disney fairies. Jaina is not Elsa from Frozen. This is a woman who literally went on a murder spree through Dalaran and killed every blood elf living there. And that was after she summoned an army of water elementals in an attempt to flood Orgrimmar.
Having her undead brother turned against her is absolutely fair game after the things she’s done.
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Many people also forget it’s been explicitly stated that Sylvanas’s goal in the war was to pile corpses as high as she could.
She’s not looking for ways to end the war cleanly. She’s looking to raise the body count as high as she can.
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No? 
Seriously though, I agree with you that Jaina should answer for her crimes. But not like this. Even Talanji was disgusted by the idea.
As I’ve said, when the states are already at Total War… it really can’t get any “bloodier”. After a certain point, there’s nothing lost by raising the stakes.
If the Alliance found such an advantage they’d use it… behind Anduin’s back if need be in order to give him plausible deniability. Shaw, Genn, Tyrande, Maiev, no doubt about it. Shandris would probably have to be kept in the dark as well, though.
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When your goal is to reduce Stormwind to ruin and undeath, there’s no such thing as a clean ending.
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How can someone who was never part of a faction be considered a member of that faction? So if you are an ancestor or dead relative you automatically become the enemy and can be used as a tool? That is some messed up logic.
Raising the dead as express weapons is a Scourge thing to do, or an Old RTS era Horde thing to do. It isn’t a reformed Horde thing to do, or even a Forsaken thing to do.
The whole concept just does not set right with me as a person, so perhaps that is why I have such an immediate rejection of the notion.
Um… The Alliance specifically had the advantage after Dazar’alor, and didn’t use it.
Territory that the Horde pushed into.
A territory that was an important monument to the orcs, specifically. (Supposedly. I think in canon the Horde lost that one? I don’t know. Warfronts are screwy.)
Losing, yet another, Warchief (thankfully.)
Complete change in how Horde leadership works.
King of an allied race.
Saurfang… I don’t just mean his death, I mean his general story.
More of, “it’s the right thing to do.”
And Sylvanas didn’t seem to really care all that much. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was just done so she could have an excuse to kill off a few tauren.
Detained the ones that went willingly, and killed those that fought. I don’t think we ever got numbers… but I can’t imagine many people actively resisting when several armed guards kick in your door.
This entire war was dumb.
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I just object to it being portrayed as some kind of line that was crossed. I would feel better if Baine had that reaction to the Burning, not to torturing and brainwashing one guy to turn him into an assassin.
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The point of Derek was for Baine to have a peace offering.
It’s kind of the most obvious example of the terrible writing in this expansion.
Derek wasn’t a prisoner of war, he had nothing to do with the war or the current Alliance, he was just another display of Sylvanas’ insanity by bringing back the dead to use as hostages. Baine knew someone who would go to such lengths to scrounge up the tiniest advantage is only out for themselves.
Not only that, raising someone from the dead to use as some sort of leverage sets a terrible precedent. It means that at any time, Sylvanas can bring back anyone she wants and permanently close off death as some sort of ‘permanent’ state of being, safe from the suffering of being alive and a fate even worse then death.
It also completely changes how war works to the point that it becomes more of a liability then an asset. If one side in a war is so superior to the other that they can threaten annihilation, it gives incentive to surrender in the hopes of not dieing. If one side however literally has someone in charge who has control over life and death and is protected by people who follow without question, there is no incentive to do anything but mutually assured destruction. If dieing means you get resurrected and stripped of your free will and forced to endure an eternity of suffering, you have more incentive to destroy the planet then your enemy.
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