In an ideal world, then yes I suppose you’re right. But we make do with what we’re getting.
I’m going to level my Monk just because I like it so much. Opinions mate.
Some people hate the orange, but it is rather tiger monk like - and orange gets a bad rap, we need more orange not less.
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Can we compromise and do recolors just to stop the wars on the forums. plox
Ugly ones at that.
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We want the appearances not shtty recolors. And they give guardian their form but fuc feral players right?.
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I have been reading this forum, as well as the others. I have seen what many have to say and what many have felt when it comes to the “Mage Tower Skins” being brought back. Usually, when things like this are being debated, it is wise to look at the pros and cons of each argument. As far as I can tell, it’s not obvious to me what the strong argument of the “don’t bring them back” is. What I have seen from that side is “you snooze you lose”, “they said they WOULD NOT bring them back, too bad” and literally someone said “yeah I EARNED them, you didn’t, too bad”. With the before mentioned comments, I have yet to read something that has made me go “wow, you have a good point”, and this is coming from someone that does have a challenge set from MOP and Mage tower skins. So yes, I do have some skin in the game.
On the other side of the argument I have seen a few compelling points such as “the skins are really unique and I wasn’t around in legion”, “I have limited time to play wow and I didn’t get them”, “during that time in my life I had some life events happen” and “why not have fun entertaining content from other expansions be relevant now”? So, on the “bring them back” argument, I do see a lot of pros. Why would it be bad if Blizzard did bring them back after 3 years? It would make people happy, a lot of people who do have them don’t even use them. It would be fun content for others to enjoy. If you already put in the time to get them then you don’t have to do it again. Quiet literally the only CON I can see of bringing them back is that some of you, for some reason, are very concerned with others being able to get them now, which I have no idea what reason would exist. There are plenty of time exclusive things in the game, why not let some new people and others who didn’t get them in time have some fun and get them? And lastly, people pay an expansion and a subscription fee to access wow, so giving feedback on something that could potentially add more value for many current, future and new players should be looked at as a net positive.
In conclusion, I fail to see the argument that the “don’t bring it back” would make, and I see bringing back the skins as only a net positive overall. If you disagree, that’s fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but, if you have a good reason as to why we shouldn’t bring it back, other than “Blizzard said they wouldn’t” and “because I GOT it and you didn’t, too bad, I don’t want other to earn them now” then I would love to hear it, and I genuinely mean that. Thanks everyone!
TLDR: I genuinely see bringing back the Mage tower skins as a net positive and don’t understand why some people are against it. The only argument I have heard against it, if you peel back the layers, is that those people have something that they don’t want others to have… because of reasons marketed to them with “time sensitive” FOMO marketing, which I don’t find to be a strong argument
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Not going to read all the comments so my apologies if this has already been repeated.
But There is no Warlock set up there. Obviously they haven’t shown all rewards yet. So who’s to say the Cat form isn’t up there as well?
Have hope.
EDIT: My bad, I see the new models shown up on Wowhead. Sorry.
Because people are entitled to their opinions and feelings about exclusive content and just because you have differing opinions doesn’t make you right. Ignoring whose opinion is better, you instead have to focus on what is fair.
Fairness entitles everyone to equal treatment across the entire player base. This could be done in two ways which would both be fine: (1)the game continues to have limited time items as it has done since the beginning. Meaning today’s players who missed out on all the stuff in the past will eventually get their hands on something they can value as exclusive as more “FOMO” items keep being added. OR (2) Blizzard comes out and says they want to fundamentally change the direction of the game regarding limited time items and now everyone can go back and earn everything that was limited to a certain time period.
Either of those solutions is fair and equitable to everyone. People may have negative or positive reactions to those two solutions and that is fine. A Middle ground where only the mage tower appetences are brought back and all the other limited time “FOMO” items remain limited is absolutely not fair.
So there you go a strong argument against bringing JUST the mage tower mogs back.
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Here another one that I think is important. Blizzard didn’t revamp the transmog rules for artifact appearances (being usable on other specs, alts being able to use them, being able to transmog to a bow to a gun and other restrictions on weapon types, or separating 1h and offhand items, etc) until well after Legion. Those are things that could have easily factored into whether someone chose to do the mage tower on certain classes or specs at all. After all, if someone mained a BM hunter for example and had no plans of swapping to marksmanship, even if they prefer bows to guns why would the average person have bothered to go through the trouble of doing mage tower for the bow when Blizzard told them that artifact appearances would be locked to your spec?
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I found the mage tower a fast way to die. Tried it twice, never did it again.
So what your saying is that you think that because many people can have different opinions on a topic (in this case a game feature) that the only acceptable value we use to make a decision is fairness. And in this case, because people are asking for a removed feature, something Blizz has done before, that the only value we should look at (fairness) would be to maintain what Blizz has done in the past (remove content/ FOMO) or, bring back all the content to make it all fair in the context that no one misses out.
In response to that, I would say lets talk about one thing at a time, because in response to your two solutions on fairness, I would agree with option 2. So I’m not going to respond to that. In response to your argument concerning my first question of “what’s a good argument to not bring back the skins” I think you and I have different views and values on the game. But first, lets talk about fairness.
Fairness: impartial and just treatment or behavior without favoritism or discrimination.
Fairness, as far as I have dealt with it, usually becomes a point of interest when it comes to a few things. Those are, 1.) competition (competing against someone else in a fashion with set rules and expectations) and 2.) when something happens where a person associated with the same things as others is slighted, given less or at a disadvantage.
Obviously there are more examples but I feel those are 2 prime examples of what fairness usually means and is referred to on a more common basis. In this case I don’t think either of those apply. For example 1, the mage tower is PVE, you’re not playing against anyone but yourself, it was meant to be a fun challenge that had a cool reward. Because of this fact, Blizz could easily make this relevant again and is currently doing so. As for #2, in what way does bringing it back slight anyone, take away anything or put them at a disadvantage? Someone might say “well I worked really hard to get them all and it shows. I was one of the 10% that got it and if everyone gets it then that just demeaning what I did”. To that, I would say that if that’s the way you feel about, do you not go back and T-mog farm? Do you not collect dungeon or raid mounts? How many people go through and collect the entire mythic set of a raid all within the time frame an expansion is relevant? Because if that’s so important to that person, then once an expansion closes then they must feel it’s wrong to do so. See, its just silly.
I personally think that if we asked people, and unraveled it to the core, most people play games to have fun, take a break from life, hang with friends and to be entertained. I think those values are much more important and held by many people. So back to the debate! I value the game on fun, freedom of many things to do, and all in all just being able to enjoy WOW. At the end of the day, when I think about what bringing back the Mage tower could do in the service of people having FUN and new people trying it, I think its an easy answer and win for everyone.
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No It is not a WIN for everyone. The fact that this topic is highly debated clearly proves that. You believe it is. That’s fine you can believe whatever you want. Others are free to believe the opposite.
You and a lot of the others keep talking about challenge or skill or game play. That is all irrelevant.
(1) like it or not wow has limited items that aren’t aviaible anymore. THIS IS A FACT
(2) bringing back some of them and not all of them fits the definition of unfair the definition of which, to use your “dictionary quote” argument style, is:
(a) not based on or behaving according to the principles of equality and justice.
(b) unkind, inconsiderate, or unreasonable.
Equality is the state of being equal, especially in status, rights, and opportunities. Applying that to limited time items and mogs means that when they are released everyone who is playing at the time has had the opportunity to get the item and once they got it they are told, and it has been established by Blizzard over 15+years now, that it would be something that was not coming back. Oh, but you will say, I didn’t have the “opportunity” because I didn’t play then! Well eventually you too will be around if you stay with the game to get the “opportunity” to get a limited item and its limitedness will be guaranteed to you as well. It has to do with the equality in the way they handle these items. You don’t get to pick and choose which items come back and which don’t because you think it would be FUN. That’s a pretty crap argument because whose making that call? the loudest whiners? Yeah that is some real equality there: Loudest whiners are the most important because they whine the loudest. sure…
Inconsiderate meaning it is inconsiderate to those who have the opinion that limited time items bring them joy no matter how many or few of them there are whether or not you agree. There’s no rule that its not inconsiderate to do something that offends and upsets a small population of the player base and because it is so small we can overlook the inconsiderate nature. Fairness doesn’t need a certain number of people to be upset to kick in. Though looking at the posts on this and other sites forums there’s a good bit of people upset. You thinking that bringing them back isn’t inconsiderate to some is just plain unreasonable and inconsiderate. (Phew got those words in under the wire)
But honestly this dictionary argument is just as stupid as yours considering anyone can twist words around to make their point. What I want to hear is an actual good argument about how it would actually be fair to bring back just the mage tower appearances. It simply isn’t and there is no good argument for that. You can say your opinion over and over and you can sign the worlds biggest petition with more than 75% of the playerbase, but it doesn’t make it fair. Blizzard realized this and for once they went with the correct fair decision instead of deciding with what would gain them the most money. And even though the best and arguably most fair decision would be to bring all the limited stuff back (which they will never do) they did the next most fair option and kept limited things limited.
Well good news for you the gameplay is coming back with new rewards. The win for everyone is they are bringing the content back for everyone to experience. There will be nothing stopping new people from trying it and getting rewarded for it. Sounds like you are saying that the only way for people to have fun and enjoy the content is to get the old transmogs instead of the new mount and recolors of the tier sets. It also gives people who already did it a reason to go back as well making it good for new players and those who already did it. Seems the definition of fair to me.
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Yeppppp hit him with a MC right at the phase transition. Then you could just burst dude down unimpeded IIRC. Good times…did they ever patch it?
I do feel this is just one of those things that people will not agree on. like you said, we each can take things like “fair” and “fun” and twist them into a stance that can support our arguments, since both of those are objective in nature.
As far as giving you an argument on why it’s fair, I don’t think we can. This, in my opinion is because both us have different views on fair and what matters in this. My view is:
I’ve done some of these time limited things, they were fun and it felt good. Years later it does not matter to me if Blizz wanted to change their minds and allow other people a shot at them. I don’t care. I would rather see people be happy to have their cool cosmetics than not.
I don’t fully understand your point of view, I just don’t. Just as you are perplexed by my lack of consideration to those who did get the skins back then, I am equally perplexed that you would not like others to share in such a cool T-Mog.
I have enjoyed our Friday chat and banter, also, thank you for keeping things civil and engaging with me in long writing format. I wish you the best and thank you for explaining some of the other side of the argument. Have a good weekend!
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I did it fairly late, so nope
Yep It really is something we have to agree to disagree on. You make great points for your viewpoint and I make good points for mine, but in the end everyone enjoys the game differently and for different reasons.
It was a nice debate though. I too enjoy getting into one with someone that can actually articulate their side well and make decent arguments in a mature fashion such as yourself.
I wish you all the best as well and thank you for giving me something to do on a long Friday at work! 
Have a great weekend!
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Still no Fel 
We need this!
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If you feel less enjoyment out of having something simply because someone else might get it… You never enjoyed having said thing. You enjoyed lording it over other peoples heads that you have it and they can’t get it. An extremely toxic mentality.
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If you feel less enjoyment out of not having something simply because someone else has it and you don’t… you’re probably one of the children crying about it on these forums.
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