Renew and m+

Some number of weeks ago I ended up taking renew off my bars entirely when I did m+ because the small amount of healing it does didn’t justify the global to cast it over something like a bubble or a flash heal. Have I been undervaluing this spell? Does anyone use it at all?

For disc it’s a spammable insta-cast atonement applicator when mechanics are forcing you to move.

For Holy I get a little more value out of it for it’s bonus healing from Renewed Faith, especially during grievous this week where PoM didn’t always take someone above 90% on it’s own and between Renew+PoM+Circle I could delete grievous from the entire group pretty quickly, but side for Renewed Faith, and some niche cases, no I don’t get a ton of use out of it as holy in M+

Raid tends to be a little more of my healing although I’m only casting it enough to make sure I get some value out of Healing Chorus, IE keep it up on both tanks, with Salvation+Benediction tending to account for most of my renew healing, which if I remember my meter correctly was around 8-12% on a given boss sitting behind PoM/Circle/Echo as the bulk of my healing. I have tried rolling renews in a raid setting and I really just don’t like it personally, the actual healing is piss weak to be not worth the mana when PoM gives you so many renews for free.

1 Like

I use it as shadow for PvP but shame its a requirement to get Prayer of Mending.

Renew heals so little that I wouldnt talent it if given the option. Needs to be doubled.

1 Like

I don’t use it much, mostly when moving in mythic and I can stand to cast. I believe it also removes a stack of grievous.

Have any other priests removed renew from there bars?

I personally use a lot of Renew since it makes a nice HoT with Mastery. It scales very hard with haste in addition to increasing all healing by 6% with the appropriate talents. It’s astoundingly good as both an instant cast and HoT’ing in anticipation of incoming damage like RLP or Nokhud.

At 30% haste and Rapid Recovery talent, it heals more than Flash Heal over the duration, so it’s really good for a pre-HoT as Holy. Divine Word: Serenity also makes it very strong.

It increases in value if you have an m+ team that knows how to avoid damage with CC/interrupts. In Raid, it can also be very good if you’re trying to conserve mana yet still put out healing. I often try to finish raid fights at <10% mana so that’s where that use case shines for me.

I think that’s ultimately the trouble with it for me. I do a lot of pugging and it’s always a crapshoot if they’re going to interrupt things or stand in stuff or not. Would be a game changer if it does in fact take off stacks of grievous though… HMM.

Renew ticks do take off grievous if the tick would place them above 90%. It’s the reason I combine it with PoM and Mastery to great effect on Grievous weeks.

Just checked your talent build and that’s a very unconventional build u have there.

Why mind games? I seriously can not think of a situation where power word life and binding heals are not clutch so u going mind games really surprised me.

Also why not lightweaver? I feel like it’s one of our most powerful talents holy priest has. Isn’t it based off our BiS legendary in SL?

None of the priest websites or the class discord recommends mindgames as a holy priest talent so I am most curious about this decision in particular.

Decided to try this and see how it goes. I don’t find myself using SoH or Censure all that much so I put some more power behind PoM and still don’t bother with renew. I chose miracle worker over divine word since having two extra instant casts has saved me more times than I can count in high damage dungeons where people go from 100 to 20% instantly.

BEQAu+2Vv7op3uGggQnVDr07wAAAAAAAAQJFJHoAJiIQikIKJJlAAAAAQSahSSIgIJRERBJJJkCA

I think the page was showing my solo world build. This is my current M+ build.

I value this over Lightweaver because I started this expansion theorycrafting a haste/mastery build for Holy. It’s been pretty good so far and should scale with more secondary stats and Ilvl going forward. Also, Lightweaver after this much time just feels like a nerfed Flash Concentration given the upkeep and limitations it requires. If it was 1 Flash Heal per 2 boosted Heals, I might use it, but it feels way too clunky compared to 2 years of Flash Concentration.

I enjoy the variety of instant casts I have with this build.

I don’t hardcast Renew that much unless I’m just wanting to top people off while were moving around or I want to pre-hot a DoT aura or something. It still has its use, but I would say PWS outperforms it.

Benediction is fine to pick on some weeks like Grievous and Bursting though.

I think lacking both Divine Hymn and Symbol of Hope at the same time as lacking Divine Word would be hard given that Divine Word is a 1 min Healing Cooldown all on its own. Divine Hymn can be used earlier during damage phases to make use of the Healing Bonus and Symbol of Hope is on-demand Mana which is really important for chain pulls.

You need Divine Hymn and Symbol of Hope imho. Divine Hymn costs only 11k mana and heals the group for about 2850% of your spell power on-top of the % healing increase taken for 15s buff.

Symbol of Hope is your only other emergency mana button and you can also use it to reset your defensives (or the tanks defensives) before another tough phase.

My experience with divine hymn has been that people take too much damage too fast for it to be worth using. I end up just flash/heal + sanctify + PoH, and with ghosts + groups running as fast as they can, I’ve had no time to stand still and cast SoH when I actually need it. My emergency mana has been shadowmeld/drinking/pots.

Could just be a case of me not pre-emptively using DH, there’s only maybe two bosses in the entire m+ lineup that I can imagine even needing to use it on.

To be clear, I haven’t had many issues with healing, so this wasn’t a question of “everyone is dying, should I be using renew??” it was more of “DOES anyone actually use this?” because I’m curious.

Some dungeons are harder than others, but RLP is the only one I’ve really struggled in for both mana and to keep people alive because of all those constant fire explosions going out but DH isn’t on a low enough cooldown for it to even be useful there.

I found what works for me, now I’m just playing around with seeing how much more I can get out of a button that several guides have suggested not even using (PoM).

I’ve also stopped using shield and that’s decreased my mana consumption pretty dramatically. Turns out it’s sort of a waste since if someone’s at 10k health and there’s damage going out still, that little shield isn’t gonna save them and i’ve just wasted a cd on someone that coulda used a flash heal, and then I’m scrambling to recover on multiple people. AKA: not worth it.

Renew doesn’t work with mastery unless you’re using empowered renew (and then it only works off that initial tick). And from what you linked you’re using rapid recovery.

Haste’s the best thing to scale it with, like dots. Verse probably comes in second.

I already know this and I’ve given feedback to specifically make a Mastery and Renew interaction. What I’m saying is that Renew makes a nice HoT with Mastery applied by other skills.

Edit: To further illustrate my point, a flash heal worth 25k at 29% mastery with my talents leaves an Echo worth 4.1k every 3 seconds. Renew at my stats will heal for 4.2k every 2.2 seconds. So, Renew can tick the same as a Flash Heal Echo at baseline, and Echos can continually grow in power the more heals you use in less time if you have appropriate mastery.

Your build with renew kinda makes me think Blizzard needs to redesign our mastery. I’ve always found Holy’s mastery frustrating because of its scaling nature. We can’t be to strong at the start of an expansion because if we are at 20-30% echo we would scale to broken levels at 60-70% by end of an expansion.

I’ve considered Echo should be a flat amount, in the 10-20% range, with our mastery increasing its stacking cap with renew acting as our way to passively, and somewhat cheaply, keep it from falling off. Would allow them to make our baseline heals pack much more of a punch without having to be concerned about our mastery scaling us to insane heights.

Thankfully, or unfortunately however you look at it, we’re prevented from reaching those levels because Blizz put in diminishing returns to secondary stats after the BFA corruption fiasco. I forget the exact #'s but it’s roughly 1.1x stats needed after 30%, 1.2x after 40% or something along those lines. So, nearly impossible to reach those levels.

I think one could actually make the point that if your design requires this type of artificial capping than its indicitive of poor design.

Blizzard has always stuggled at balancing scaling abilities, stats, and just in general, with this game.