People should not just assume that you know every dungeon! Plus its a normal dungeon, its not Heroic, Mythic or Mythic+, people are trying to level and learn a new dungeon. To be kicked cause one person wants to speedrun the dungeon does not make any sense, its very rude, and it does not help to keep new players.
The problem is the game is nearly 20 years old. A huge part of the population have been playing since the early expansions. And it wasn’t one person. The majority of the group voted to boot you for lagging behind. To be kicked takes a majority vote.
Yes, it sucks for newer players or players that hadn’t experienced X expansion while they took a break. I don’t disagree with you, but there are things that are just facts. I would feel safe stating the majority of players running things are wanting to run through quickly so they can get on to the next. Whether you’re leveling, timewalking, running for the weekly rewards - it’s repetitive as all get out after a certain point and most of the time people are on the same page to just get through something as fast and as clean as they can.
If you’re unfamiliar then you need to speak up about it. The onus is on you to communicate with your group if you’re at any kind of disadvantage.
Don’t know the dungeon? Speak up. Your connection is being wonky and you may blip offline briefly but will be right back in ASAP? Speak up. You got lost when you couldn’t keep up with the group? Speak up and most times someone will run back or try and talk you through the proper path.
Communication should go both ways not just kick someone with out warning in a Normal Dungeon. This is my 7th character since September. Its frustrating when the group kicks you in a leveling dungeon, I am talking about just a Normal Dungeon queue, not Heroic which you must have 402 ilvl. We dont think there could be a way to have a Normal Dungeon not to have a vote to kick option unless you are AFK only?
If doing Dragonflight dungeons, have you considered using the Follower Dungeons in order to better learn the layout and mechanics for each dungeon?
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This is about being kicked in Normal Dungeons while leveling and kicking the unexperienced player just because the experienced player wants to speedrun the dungeon. If the experienced makes a new character they should except others not to know their class or the dungeon is new.
Yes they do? They actually just buffed XP given to them.
You keep harping on it being “normal” dungeons. It doesn’t matter what kind of dungeon it is. People who are leveling or who are gearing through those (which isn’t the case so much these days with Emerald Dream gear), they just don’t want to spend anymore time in them then they need to be.
I’m not saying it’s the right or wrong way to do things - but the majority of the time - folks are going to barrel through dungeons. Period. It will not be communicated because that is the norm these days.
Someone who needs special accommodation though - it’s on you to speak up so that your group is aware of it. It’s no different than walking into LFR and not knowing a fight. You have to ask or at least communicate with the people you’re running with. For lack of a better way of phrasing it? You’re the odd person out. If you don’t speak up then if you’re coming off as dead weight to the group or just wanting to be carried? They’re going to boot you. That’s why it’s on you to speak up if you know you’re not going to be able to keep up with the rest of your group mates.
And again for clarification? I don’t think there is anything wrong with speaking up on either side of the coin. For the dungeons I can do with my eyes closed, so long as I know my healer can keep up with me just in case? It’s a race to the finish. But I do communicate with that healer as part of my role as a tank. Everyone else I expect to keep up with us unless I see someone asks or mentions they’ve got a quest to complete. Heck, even in timewalking? I will most of the time make sure folks know the fights if there is some gottcha mechanic. But that is me and how I treat my groups.
Dragonflight stuff? I’ve maybe run each of them a handful of times and barely remember them at this point. And I’ll warn folks about that too before we get going. I know what I am capable of or not capable of. I make sure I do what I can to make each run as smooth as possible. And just speaking up is the easiest thing one can do, but it is probably the most important part of it.
The issue isn’t with the group kick feature. It’s with communication right from the get go.
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So I am in the wrong here?
It’s not so much as pointing fingers and assigning the blame.
It’s just seeing where a mistake was made and doing your part in correcting it. Just like learning a dungeon, there is also a matter of learning how dynamics work.
A fresh player may think that because they’re a shaman in heavier mail gear, that they can tank a group without all of a tank’s damage mitigation and talents. They may not understand how the roles work and should be played. It may take dying (probably a lot, as I used to raid back in BC with one who wanted to tank because he had a mace and a shield and was very much a YOLO kind of guy), but they learn eventually that a shaman isn’t meant to be a tank and that a healer isn’t going to keep healing/rezzing a DPS with a death wish.
You are absolutely entitled to your opinion and have the right to offer the feedback and suggestions you may have so that the staff can see them.
But I would strongly urge for you to look at things from the rest of your group’s perspective rather than just being insulted by being kicked.
However it plays out, I sincerely do wish you all the best and with better groups going forward.
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Kicking a person from a group just because they dont know the dungeon should not be the reason. I am being insulted by being kick just because others want to go fast. I feel left out just because I am learning. Not everyone wants to go fast through the dungeons and some dont learn how to play when others are a mile ahead showing off. The experienced players need to be respectful to the newer players because that is how the game grows. Not by the players who have been playing for years. Kicking players who are AFK makes sense. Kicking others because of damage output and any reason at all, it seems very rude. And its the experienced players that are kicking the new players. It doesn’t seem like the some experienced players want new players.
This is exactly why follower dungeons were created
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Follower dungeons does not fix the issues of people kicking others in Normal dungeons! Its a leveling and learning dungeon.
Oh I wont be kicked in a follower dungeon. Follower dungeons are NPCs not real people. Real people have different ways of completing the dungeons. Im not going to learn what people strats are in a follower dungeon.
Are you in a guild OR community? If so, have you asked for your guild / community mates to help you with runs?
The vote kick is a necessary evil. Yes, it is no fun being on the receiving end. But it would also not be fun being stuck in a group with players who only want to cause grief knowing you could never kick them.
Players have control over their own groupings to an extent. It is needed in order to keep a smooth and fair flow to the game.
If you do not want to be subject the whims of others, then it would behoove you to create your own groupings of likeminded players.
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I’ve been playing WoW since TBC and I almost never saw tanks abuse dungeon runs (like people keep claiming), but I have seen constant abuse of the vote kick system. I don’t know what the hell you guys keep referring to with these problems but I can’t understand how the original problem was worse than the “solution”.
Shortly after the change where being kicked no longer protected you from the debuff cooldown, I have personally had a tank refuse to do anything in a dungeon and demanded to be kicked (under the belief that they would not be hit with the CD).
I have ran into players who seem to enjoy causing wipes in dungeons OR who wish to go off on a swearing tirade (or being demeaning to party members).
Had the vote to kick not been available to the other members of those groups, we would have had to just leave on our own.
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But did you tell them you didn’t know the dungeon? We keep dancing around this. If they didn’t know, they couldn’t have read your mind in how you wished to proceed. If no one speaks up, no one knows any different.
Unfortunately, people don’t even need a specific reason. They might not like your mog or your name and decide they don’t want to run with you. And that is their right, just as it would be your right to initiate a kick for a kamikaze tank.
It isn’t abuse. The SFAs have said as much so many times over. The system is working as it is intended to work. Running groups formed by LFG is an at-will situation. It is not mandatory to run with strangers who may not like the realm you’re from and will boot you as soon as you zone in. It’s a jerk move, but it’s not against the rules. It’s not even reportable.
(if you need a reference point, I already copied responses from a couple similar situations above here.)
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Kicking people just because you can, is abuse. Anyone who thinks it isn’t needs a head exam.
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There is absolutely no learning to be done in normal dungeons. The enemies fall over with a mean look from the tank and bring water guns to a sword fight.
In a difficulty like that, the dungeons are essentially 3d maps that spit out levels, which is how they’re treated. Mythic and up are the first difficulties that even have all the mechanics.
I don’t agree with kicking people who fall behind, but if you park your toon 3 rooms back and don’t move, I can see why people would rather you not be there.
ive been leveling my alts over the last month and the only time I see people getting kicked is if they fall behind, cause the perception is they are AFK, right or wrong is what it is. People just want it to seem like you are trying. ive never seen a dungeon, while leveling, that failed due to lack of DPS. job #1 press the W key and press DPS keys as you can cause its all going to die real fast…
if you are playing a caster class, ye its going to be hard to get spells off sometimes, its ok we all know. keep pressing W and blast when they stop.
if you want to stop and smell the roses… thats what a follower dungeons is for, you wont find many (or any ?) that want to do that any more. Most have seen it all many many times.
hope my little bit here helps take care.
if you want to run a few with me hit me up. it can be fun to go fast too.
No. Most ppl just want to do normal / heroic / mythic / mythic plus dungeon as fast as possible. U need to follow the trend. If u wan to practice your rotation, then do it at training dummy. Learn new dungeon, watch video regarding the dungeon first. Normally, in any dungeon, unless u r tank, r jz keep follow the tank, dps the mobs, do mechanic. If u really serious about learning the dungeon, watch the video carefully, set up your addons etc. Anyway, for normal dungeon, esp at end of expansion, wat u need to do is jz keep follow the tank and do ur dps rotation on mob u see. Run fast to follow the group.
Yes training dummies help to an extent. The training dummy just sits there. It does not help when the enemies are moving around in a dungeon. There are different scenarios that a follower dungeon (that you cant unlock till ilvl 180) or training dummy will not help with. So the less experienced player has to know exactly what the experienced player wants to do. I see a big disconnect between players because of the following.
- Communication between all players
- The new player has to learn very quickly cause the player with years of experience wants to run every thing their way.
- Learning players are kicked because of damage output, are lost in the dungeon, as a result are behind and die because the experienced wants to speedrun the normal dungeon.
Yes watching video helps to an extent, I myself learning by doing. I have to physically do something in order to learn. When the experienced player goes ahead really fast and then starts hitting every enemy before I get there. How is that fun for anyone plus they can not learn anything and are drag through the dungeon if they dont match the speed of the one doing everything, they are kicked. Yes I can communicate but are afraid to at times because they might kick me. We dont see this as a problem?