I agree from a design standpoint. I’m afraid Spriests will struggle to build the insanity necessary for AOE in Mythic+ settings. It also makes M+ rotations really weird. Trash can easily die faster than you have time to cast something, so the mastery of building DoTs conflicts directly with insanity generation because you have to make this weird choice between generating more insanity by spamming MB outright or trying to build ST dots to make it worth something. I understand they’re trying to make applying dots easier with some of the mechanics, but applying DoTs still felt really Single Target when I was experimenting with it, so I have concerns. It needs to be far easier to apply and/or renew dots in an AOE setting if they want Spriest to do any AOE damage with how their mastery works.
^ what he said.
I think it’s fine, but I’ve only put about an hour or so into the class on beta. From the build I was playing, it’s used as a sanity dump because you’re going to be overcapping constantly, and having another generator is just going to cause issues, whereas an AoE spender that isn’t attached to 2 GCDs (like it is now) is a much cleaner design.
In 2-3 target cleave alone I was struggling to spend the sanity I was getting let alone use all the procs. It’s also optional to take mind sear.
A better solution would be to have mind sear (current iteration) be defaulted into the class, then have the node that gives you mind sear override it with the spender.
I still think it’s fine as it is though, if you’re playing correctly you’ll want the santiy dump.
Did you play the new talent tree? Like at all? Shadow Crash applies VT / SW Pain in AoE on a really low CD, they brought back the instant cast (key word) AoE SW Pain talent, they added immense multi-target cleave with shadow abs generators, mb and ms both cleave (when talented) for 60% of their damage, multiple instant cast talents, and so many other AoE specific spreaders that it’s ridiculous.
If you play current SPriest in any capacity for M+ and played the beta (with talents selected) for even 5 minutes you’d immediately see what I mean with the sanity dump being nearly required.
I don’t remember what my haste values were by default on beta, but in the testing greens they give us it’s not very high - Fire Mage was 8 or 9% haste default where on live I have 34%. Spriest was probably 12ish? With higher haste values you would have absolutely zero reason to channel an AOE sanity generator because in the time it would take you to cast the GCD you would already overcap.
I did, did you? Do you really think a 30s CD is competitive in PVE M+? Pretty sure I’ve had packs go down faster than that when I was pushing KSM on this character
Also, how are you getting 60% spread on MB and MS? THere’s 2 talent ranks for 15% each in psychic link. And it requires the dots to be in place. Basically you have to set up your dots before it even matters, and the time it takes to do that + casting either is a lot of time in many trash scenarios. Spriest would really only have potential in higher keys where trash fights are extended, which is kind of the problem I was pointing out earlier.
The only thing you really have on me, is that I haven’t run a priest in M+, but I’ve played a burst damage class on M+, this class (and can you post on your priest?). And the fact you’re giving me numbers that don’t even match reality has me really questioning where you’re coming from. I don’t think I’m the most amazing WoW player, I more or less dabble, going for either KSM or AoTC once in a blue moon, but this feels far from a productive conversation and I’m wondering what world you’ve been playing in because it doesn’t match mine at all. And I do have a max level priest on the PTR and in SL.
Have you played Spriest in SL at all? it has an AOE insanity dump already, without mind sear costing anything.
Was 60% during my testing, unless I missed something. Wowhead talent calc might not be up-to-date.
Also the current application of DoT’s is really straight forwards especially now that you’re not choosing between misery and something, you can just raw take it and run it if you choose to do so.
I don’t see the point in being degrading towards someone with more experience in a topic. Seems counter productive imo.
It was my main raid alt in Legion, got benched for the first portion of BFA (didn’t play much) and I played it for splits during 8.3 Nya CE prog. I also played Shadow during 9.0 for Mythic CN prog for two teams, then during Sanctum as my raid alt.
I got KSM on it because I was bored one week, and I’ve been playing it a little more as of recent because it’s end of the patch and we’re not doing prog keys anymore.
Three GCDs to dump your insanity bar, assuming you are playing optimally. One to cast mind sear, then one for each cast of searing nightmare during your cast of mind sear.
The duration of sear is just long enough to hold two GCD’s of SN, and with 4 set the procs of dark thought requires you to spend those GCD’s on mind blast, especially during mind bender to maximize the damage from your legendary.
Assuming you don’t have SW Pain on everything, that’s 3 GCDs just to do AoE damage, also assuming you don’t have your mindbender out and not in your initial void eruption window. The ramp-up for Priest is about 12 GCD’s for a 5 target pack, that’s before you an use 3 GCD’s to do AoE damage with your SN.
Alternatively, same 5 pack on Beta, it’s ~5-7 GCD’s to start ripping damage in the same capacity (from the builds I’ve tested).
To the title.
I like Mind Sear as a spender than a filler.
Insanity as a resource is pointless, much like holy power, maelstrom, etc. They are there just to be there. You could instead just buff the damage of the abilities that are spenders and put them on a cooldown instead of having them consume a resource.
I agree 100%! I can’t build Insanity enough to justify draining it for 100 extra damage, when SN GAVE 1400+ damage in the same amount of time. I just don’t get it. It feels weaker because I do less AOE damage in the same amount of time. The Shadow Priest is definitely less AOE and more single target now. There will be people that disagree, and come up with impossible math to prove they are better WOW players. I don’t care about any of that. I no longer have fun playing a SP with the new talents. I highly doubt they will change it back, so I will probably end up playing another class instead. If others can make the SP work, more power to them.
not really. when u r busy aoeing, it is weird if u have to spend globals on single target devouring plague. now it is more seamless, in aoe u just use it on mind sear.
Na, mind sear was reworked to be the AoE insanity spender. Good riddance to the days of mind sear spam.
Nah, Mind Sear as an AoE spender is clunky.
However, I understand that some people have an acquired taste for clunk. What would make this more tolerable for those of us who don’t is a change to the talent tree.
Simply add an option to where Dark Evangelism is (which is beneficial, but not super fun) , something to the effect of…
“Reduce the Insanity cost of Mind Sear by 25/50%, and increase the insanity generation of Mind Flay by 10/20%”.
If you’re already choking on Insanity, and don’t find the cost annoying, cool… take a different talent.
Yes we’ve seen Blizz try this before. Just don’t! Please don’t! They’re hard enough to play with nerfed dps but this removes their only AOE spell and makes it so so so complicated.
Hi I actually do play shadow priest and I like it as a spender. It is way better than Searing Nightmare spamming. It actually does damage now and I’m so OK with that.
Hi, I actually do play Shadow Priest and I think it’s clunky garbage.
Trying to build Insanity for Mind Sear is a pain. If there has to be a cost lower it or make it optional to cost insanity to do more damage in the Talent Tree. Or the other way around make cost 0 but do less damage.