There’s no hybrid tax, like in TBC and beyond, because it’s not “must be protection” if you want to tank vs. “must be fury” if you want to do damage…
Warriors are tanks, period. You can have 0/0/0 talent points and you, because you’re a Warrior, are still a better tank than any other class in the game.
It’s the difference between being defined by your class and being defined by your spec. Classic is the former. Expansions are the latter.
A hybrid that only hits things in close combat. Assuming we reduce the definition of a hybrid to be strictly role based and ignore the fantasy element.
For like the 12th time, its a difference of opinion. You wanna be technical and obsess about numbers and perceived perks whereas I think warriors kicking butt in more ways than one to be fine from a lore or rpg perspective. Doesn’t unnerve me a bit.
Zipzo already said it - warriors are the exception (albeit in a different way) and proved it earlier with the dev commentary where they didn’t put warriors in a set category. Nor did they intend for warriors to be better than rogues at melee dps.
It just worked out that way 18 years later in a solved, two decade old MMO everyone played thats on a permanent phase 6 server thats 4 years old. Stuff happens. Im over it.
Warriors aren’t pure hybrids so it doesn’t matter what they can do better than actual hybrids. They can’t be the best tank or melee dps at the same time and its not feasible for a single warrior to maintain that kind of playstyle when you account for respec costs.
Im fine if you want to call them hybrids. Im not going to call them hybrids, if thats cool with you.
Priests can heal and do damage. Are they a hybrid too?
Cause if that’s the case, only mages locks and rogues are not hybrids
Warriors should be the top damage dealers. It’s the only class with no unique rpg mechanics to interact with the world or other players beyond just hitting or damaging mobs.
What are you smoking? That is the universally agreed upon (and Blizzard backed) meaning of a ‘hybrid class’ since forever. You are grasping for straws so fine you’d give Bill Clinton second-hand embarrassment. What’s your next absurd take? Hybrid classes don’t exist?
Oh wait, there it is:
Warriors are hybrids.
Irrelevant. This feeble logic would claim druids arent hybrids because they cant tank in their resto build.
Ah, more fiction
Ok, I just have to answer this even though I haven’t read the rest of the thread yet.
When I played back in 2005 our warlocks absolutely did not use whatever dots they wanted to. There were 8 debuff slots and if a person put the wrong thing up our raid leaders would yell very loudly something like “Who the hell put that on the boss? Do not do that again or when I find out who you are I’m kicking you from the raid group and never inviting you back!!!”
There have been tryhards the whole time. Raiding by itself in the relevant Vanilla raids was fairly rare and raiders were often and admittedly the “elitists” of the game.
The culture was different and more classes were brought to raids but the “unwanted spes” were still not. There was a feral DPS druid on our server who just loved to play that and although his raid group accepted this he was endlessly made fun of on the server for raiding as feral.
It is interesting watching Vanilla raiding glamorized as “more casual” by people who were not there and only watched old YouTube videos. Who then pick those videos apart based on the people back then not playing as they do now. Those raiders didn’t know what was best yet or they would have been doing it too.
It’s also interesting when people talk as if they are playing an RTS where they can pick whatever units they want instead of understanding that human behavior, due to people filling the slots, dictates a lot of what happens with raid teams.
Ok, I just wanted to point this out too.
In Dragonflight healers are pretty much forced to DPS “instead of standing around” even if they absolutely hate to do so because they do not find DPSing fun. So things are not better in 2023 in regard to the role that a person wants to play.
Also the entire time there have been meta classes and specs.
I’m generalizing. The best players knew about the debuff limit and were strict about it. But they still had extra debuff slots for a number of reasons.
Surely everyone can now see how dumb and bias Despitebeing is about anything and everything
He definitely sticks to his opinions long term that’s for sure.
I mean…yes. Priests are also hybrids.
The only pure damage dealing classes are the ones you named + hunters (and there’s no pure tank or pure healer).
Hunters and locks got the shaft, due to many factors, for being both complex to play and still sucking in the endgame at their only available role.
However, if you go by 2004 Blizzard’s development definition of hybrids (even when Priests were intended to have a melee spec in Discipline, originally), they actually do not check one of the stated boxes for being a hybrid, which is to be able to fill in as a tank.
As has been explained and shown though, this definition of hybrid evolved just within the following year to include any class that can cover multiple roles between healing, damage, and tanking (appreciably).
Either way, priests are definitively hybrids…not sure why you thought that was a slam dunk argument.
Ill do my own thinking and come to whatever conclusion I want regardless of what the authorities or majorities have to say.
The real question here is why its a such a big deal to you. You have a concept I’m willing to entertain. It doesn’t profit me to have a “position” one way or the other. I am well aware of all the relevant criteria for your hypothesis. It doesn’t matter to me if warriors are considered hybrids or not as there really is no urgency demanding a final determination. I have the leisure and luxury to consider all the interpretations and concepts - which I have done - and I don’t agree with yours.
You want to win with the technical and ignore the fundamental. Obviously if warriors are somehow evading the hybrid tax in 2023 there’s a reason for that and it may have something to do with the notion that they aren’t a hybrid, weren’t deemed or intended to be a hybrid, or perhaps theyre not a hybrid worthy of being taxed regardless of the potentialities of your theorycraft.
Now, you can tell me the devs screwed up (unintentionally, in hindsight) and it needs addressing but I don’t see it that way. Even if I thought warriors were a hybrid in the same exact vain as a druid or paladin would I want to see class changes so whether I agree with you or not is immaterial.
So like I said, feel free to continue calling warriors hybrids for whatever that accomplishes for you. I’ll continue to consider warriors sorta kinda hybrid like in theory instead of being an actual hybrid since its not really a super important and problematic issue that requires intervention.
It’s not a “slam dunk” argument. It’s there to show you how dumb and ridiculous it is to throw the word “hybrid” around on everything to fit one’s narrative or agenda.
The entire premise is around 1 random on this thread who says warriors are hybrids. They aren’t. It doesn’t matter how far you stretch your mental gymnastics, a class with 3 melee specs isn’t a hybrid. Warriors don’t heal and are not ranged dpsers, unless you try to cope and say they can use guns so it counts.
“Hybrid” is now a semantics argument in order for people to justify buffs and nerfs in a case by case basis
Everyone knows warriors smack mobs and take damage. Your average Joe would never call warriors a hybrid. Despitebeing just has his own fantasy agenda.
Wth good are warriors if not blasting mobs and taking damage? That’s all they can do. They should
Be the better end of that role
Another lie. You don’t want to admit the flaw in design, so you squirm when every bit of evidence is shouting the truth that warriors are hybrids.
See this guys post here.
Claims to have “a bunch of evidence” that a class with plate armor and 3 melee specs are somehow a “hybrid”.
What’s the evidence? Is his evidence “look! a warrior can swap one of his 1 handers for a shield! HES DOING HYBRID STUFF!”
Any conscious human being knows this guy is capping like crazy
The definition of hybrid is a class that can fill more than 1 role. It always has been.
So a fire mage and a frost mage?
Or melee/caster/healer?
The roles as defined by wow are
Tank, Damage, Healer.
So every class is a hybrid except 3?
Is it a semantics argument?
A tank does damage while tanking.
A rogue can tank. Is a rogue tank a semantics argument?