Reminder: Raids should NEVER be pushed down people's throats

I was here when the mage tower was first released. It was tuned for raiders in raid gear at the time. People who had been told it was content for everyone were justifiably upset. They were expected to sink their hard-earned resources into supporting content that wasn’t intended for them to do, when they could have put those resources into the other buildings, which they would have gotten some use out of.

Did it upset you at the time that casuals refused to make the sacrifice to pay to support your content? After announcing that eventually everybody would overgear it and be able to run it, they ended having to change the donation calculation to make sure raiders had it up whenever their little hearts desired.

And the bait-and-switch where they sold average players on the idea that buying a sub meant they would be able to do the mage tower, and then made it dramatically more difficult than the PTR when released? They were right to be upset about yet another bait and switch to pander to snowflakes who couldn’t feel good about what they were doing if casuals didn’t have something taken away.

Nothing remotely “insane” about it. It was exactly the response they should have expected when they planned to show casuals what they really felt about them.

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In what way do you not have a choice? Your gear can be — literally — only 2 item levels lower than the highest tier of raiding gear, without ever setting foot in a raid.

Gear in SL has been more accessible to dungeon and PvP players than in other recent expansions.

The valor upgrade system and creation catalyst quite literally mean you can have the best gear in the game and never set foot in Sepulcher.

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From what i’ve heard DF is focusing too much on Raids. That’s what i’m referring too and for future reference as well.

Based on what evidence? There hasn’t even been any testing for raids or raid gearing.

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They are not pushed down your throat.

Dungeons are the best way to get top end gear.

How are they not?

Can you give me specifics? Its 100x easier to get 272 gear from dungeons vs raiding.

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No need to raid for gear. Better gear comes from keys.

idk i heard it a lot :skull:

My point still stands by the way.

This also applies to raidandy’s being too entitled feeling like they’re ‘superior’.

So your complaint about raiding being forced down your throat isn’t actually based on any evidence or any system in the game, it’s just a vibe and what you’ve heard from others? Am I getting that right?

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But your point is factually wrong.

The best way to gear up…is from dungeons.

If anything, raid gear needs to be bolstered in its acquisition in comparison to pvp/dungeons.

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I think PvP/Dungeons/Raids all should be equal in gearing, none get better ilvl than the other.

Obtaining gear faster to be on par with PvP/Dungeons?
I AGREE with you.

Then the reward also needs to look at difficulty.

Congrats. You just nerfed PVP and Dungeon rewards. If the same exact ilvl is going to be the reward, then yeah. It needs to be a LOT harder to get similar rewards from m+, for example.

DF has a much deeper crafting system, will rotate dungeons for M+, and the new continent is massive. I don’t know what you’re reading but it seems pretty inaccurate.

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Or maybe it doesn’t have to be that way? Maybe Raids should be nerfed in difficulty if we go by this.

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So your suggestion is to mess up content you don’t do.

How brave.

More like, you’re being entitled right now making it about yourself, as expected from raidandy. You fail to to see it doesn’t have to be that way and think Raids are this all holy content and anything that happens externally somehow should just affect it because… it should? over what some vague idea of difficulty & rewards?

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If LFR gets nerfed any more it will be soloable.

I’m a casual. Haven’t raided in many years. However, I will admit that in my latest gaming sessions (today), I do not recall the game gluing my eyes open, strapping my hands to my desk and popping up a notification that I would not be allowed to get up or leave until I complete at least one raid.

To be fair, I accept and don’t care if I don’t have the latest and greatest armor either. I don’t do the work, I don’t covet the reward.

“stop making it about yourself when i want to make it all about myself”

hot take here.

“i want 278 rewards from trivial content” (yes, I consider completing (not timing) a 15 basically trivial at this point)

you are such a bastion of wonderful ideas.

Can you explain to me what’s wrong with the following argument:

  1. Raids require more coordination and more players, and are tuned to be more difficult than all other content

  2. The most difficult content should give the best rewards

  3. Therefore, raids should give the best rewards.

PvP & Mythic+ isn’t ‘trivial’ content but okay whatever floats your boat, raid elitists. Nice projection there, ‘bro’.