The sense of accomplishment in the harmode is the reward. That was discs niche. The spec for the player that wants complicated. There is a reason why hardcore wow does well. People dont always want easy. I know i dont
I agree. I find oracle fun also. But there is a fine line between hardmode and self torture and oracle leans more to the latter
Also next patch, at least raiding oracle took a huge hit. We ll see if m+ is improved. Hope so
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When was this?
The only thing that people should be horrified at is that you are so full of yourself that you genuinely think that 99+% of disc is VW only because itâs easy and not because it just blows Oracle out of the water in both hps and dps output.
If you like Oracle because itâs fun/difficult/whatever, thatâs fine, itâs not like you participate in content that requires the difference between Oracle and VW anyway, and I have always believed that playing something one is more comfortable with is more fun than chasing a meta spec that they might dislike.
But itâs nothing short of gross egocentrism and narcissism to conclude that all players must be lazy for picking VW, especially the top-of-the-top players pushing the highest key levels are also running VW, and they are the ones who are plenty skilled enough to play a more difficult rotation or playstyle if Oracle over VW would push an extra key level before anyone else.
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People would play oracle if it were competitive with voidweaver, but itâs not. It wouldnât be many people unless it were really close, but it would be more than 0.3% of people.
Oracle has a bigger problem than its numbers - itâs not an appealing theme. The theme is niche to begin with, and Premonitionâs rotating ability schtick makes it maybe a tenth as popular as oracle would be based on the theme alone.
All I know is that Iâve put up with Blizzard assigning priest design to the D squad for a decade, but oracle being strong will result in me finally dropping the class. Again, I donât care about voidweaver, but Premonition is a miserable ability. Iâd be down instantly if they renamed Fae Guardians and have oracle that ability, but I will never be down with the class hinging on a rotating ability. Iâd even prefer the original Twisted Fate iteration even though itâs fundamentally incompatible with how WoW plays.
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All this. Oracle would be played right now if it held any appeal. Disc Oracle is the worst spec in the game, but itâs playable and people would absolutely play it more just because itâs harder if the theme were at all appealing.
But itâs not. It could have been, but Premonition is a massive negative modifier on the whole spec.
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Your post made me smile. Thank you 
I think you really really overreact.
Maybe itâs appalling to you.
Voidweaver outperforms Oracle mainly because Mind Blastâs 20s cooldown aligns perfectly with boss AOE patterns every 20-30s, allowing you to heal through them easily with Mindender up. It also deals more damage passively and is easier to play.
Go look at the archived posts about oracle during alpha and beta. Nothing has changed about any of that feedback.
My opinion is very common unless thereâs been a massive silent shift in opinion, but Iâm pretty sure a 0.3% play rate indicates that nothing has changed. Even other profoundly unpopular hero trees tend to get 5% play rate or higher, even if they also grossly underperform.
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Iâll be honest - Iâm excited for Oracle disc in dungeons next patch.
Iâm not excited for Disc in any other content because PvP without rapture sounds awful, and raid saw voidweaver nerfs and Oracleâs still not gonna be great in raid regardless of the rest of the changes.
Dungeon content is going to be totally fine, Iâm pretty certain of that. The gains oracle got were all great for that content specifically minus the loss of rapture, but rapture wasnât like some insane godly tool for them in 5 mans, and at a high enough key you were likely to just commit it to specific mechanics anyway. It was a very good tool, sure - but Evangelism is going to close some of that gap being basically a holy word serenity on all party members before you even penance (which is also significantly buffed/better for oracle with contrition/the new twin talent auto proccing on an offensive). Will it be meta? That depends more on other specs and how it slots into a comp, as it always has. Though the loss of rapture is a big hit to the highest keys specifically.
Prem also isnât really that bad to play around anymore IMO.
I donât really think it needs significantly more AoE in 5 mans after what it got. Oracle was alright in 5 mans, it just isnât nearly as efficient as VW was. VW is basically totally free cooldown for every single mechanic and on top of that a bunch of extra health for the whole group with Rapture, pain supp and barrier in high key.
Iâm more concerned about the damage, tbh. Disc damage is not looking to be very great at all in dungeons.
IMO Iâd actually keep a lot of these changes, bring rapture back, revert evang and make uppies move while cast instead of trying to increase uppies survivability. If itâs gonna be central to the tree and something weâre expected to take, uppies needs to feel great. Right now it feels COOL, but not great to use - itâs horribly inconsistent when it comes to what hits you up there, and hard enough content 100% still wonât cut it. If theyâre stuck on rapture not being in PvE, then at least bring it to PvP somehow (preferably not taking up a whole talent slot).
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I generally agree with your assessment here. Uppies needs to be changed to feel good as a must-play ability, which they probably wonât do but it is what it is. I like the change to Evangelism, and Iâm very curious to see what class tree changes get revealed. Iâm personally hoping for a top to bottom overhaul, but Iâll settle at the bare minimum for Benevolence getting removed and the capstones getting reworked to be better than a passthrough node at the top or middle of any other class tree.
My primary objection to the changes is that Blizzard knows Premonition is extremely unpopular and oracle does provide additional capabilities to discipline, so making oracle truly competitive or even superior to voidweaver means that theyâre essentially forcing discipline players to play around a new ability that many (charitably, most if weâre following the information we have) of them have no desire to play around.
Being able to cast 3 massive shields right after another with no cd, not counting other talents that can buff shield amount, especially in arenas, was not healthy for pvp.
doesnât using premonition for a weak rapture, take away the ability to use penance 3 times? So kinda taking away a mindbender like cooldown from future oracle disc? I dunno, i havent seen all the notes yet.
Insight is a poor mans version of Rapture.
Ultimately I feel like VW is just going to be your casual M+ Disc build and Oracle is more for big keys where you need to pre-PWS the whole group to survive one shots.
Right now on keys itâs a survivability check starting at +15s because youâre getting blasted every 20-30s for your full hp bar unmitigated. This is where comms come in because youâd rotate all the group defensives for every mechanic.
Disc just has the advantage because you can pre-PWS the squishy players with the tier set absorb shields for 2mil when Rapture is on cd.
CURRENTLY you generally wouldnât want to penance 3 times. Youâd pretty much always PW:R>Penance>PW:R>Penance or mini-rapture for 4 shields.
You⌠MIGHT want to do that in the patch considering twinsight talent, but realistically, I think the majority of the time youâd still want to PW:R once/twice in that window to reset it faster, or use PW:S 4x. Itâs also gonna depend on our tier set.
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After testing in PTR, I amend this statement.
Oracleâs Twinsight talent gives you Weal and Woe stacks and does proc baseline contrition on the free bolts.
This means your Insight rotation is going to be Penance > Smite > Penance > Smite > Penance > Smite > Penance > Smite for AoE, lol.
You also can do PW:S if you ever need ST healing in there. It honestly feels like fairly good healing now, which is nice!
Canât say that Voidweaverâs doing super well, but Oracle gained a lot in this patch.
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I presume you are saying Offensive pen? Not Dpen for DA? Offensive Pen giving 3 bolts to players which will proc contrition plus DA
I went on the ptr too and if oracle is the play obviously crit would be. 30% crit with the talent giving +50% crit on pwr for DA etc. The ST is very nice. Not only the healing for Dpen but a DA followed up by a pws, and penance throwing out 3 bolts offensively is nice
Still like TE tho 
I do think they should reconsider Heavens wrath for oracle tho
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Much hype.
I donât think it matters much if youâre not casting PW:R.
If you cast PW:R, offensive penance is the better AoE healing tool. If you donât cast it, technically defensive penance is better for healing and offensive for damage - but the difference is pretty negligible - itâs one penance bolt from twinsight of difference (assuming you have castigation). If you use it offensively you get one less defensive bolt, if you use it defensively, one less offensive bolt.
I think oracle might be why they removed it, actually, because itâs 3 more bolts per penance. Honestly I was surprised to see weal and woe work with it because it definitely didnât with the canceled DF tier set that hit PTR for a week back then and was promptly removed. That synergy is really strong regardless.