Raids Dungeons Threat and Ranged

Hi,

So I was watching some youtube personalities explaining raiding, and it wasn’t as I remembered. There seems for example, to be this idea that Warriors where top raid dps, but I can’t remember this at all. And according to a few accounts, Hunters where practically useless.

Now… I might just recall incorrectly, and well… I wasn’t the biggest raider, and it is possible that my guild didn’t have the best tank, therefore threat may have been a bigger issue.

But I do “not” recall warriors being the go to for dps, because well… threat cap… Maybe some of these youtubers are pulling info from private servers with incorrect threat, or maybe farming raids with an Uber tank gets different results? I’m not saying I remember warriors as being worthless at dps, just simply not topping charts especially not by any big margins.

As for ranged, am I remembering correctly that Ranged, including hunters where good, not because of pure dps, but because it was less work for healers, meaning that you would need a few less healers than if you simply had pure melee? And also I think I remember Autoshot being better than a straight caster going Ooom?

All short on memory I think, But i’m curious on other peoples memories on this.

Among average players Hunters are fine. You do a little better DPS because your Auto Shot does not have the same game mechanics as melee white swings (auto attacks).

The real value of Hunters in a raid is Tranq Shot, tricky pulls, and kiting. Unfortunately, many Hunters are bad at all three.

That said, Hunters are not a class raids stack. You want 2-3 good ones, and bad Hunters basically don’t bring anything worthwhile. You can bring a lot of bad players (keyboard turners, clickers, tunnel vision…) who are good at their 2-3 button rotation and have decent gear. Hunter is not one of them.

IMO, there is no best dps class for every boss. It varied from fight to fight. Melee didn’t do so well if they had to move a lot. Warriors did get threat capped sometimes. And yes, melee did often require more healing, which had to be factored in.

And for 90% of guilds it was not a matter of selecting 3 of this particular class and 6 of this one, etc., for optimal results. That ONLY applies if you can fill EVERY spot with people of elite skill, which only happens in the select few top end progression guilds. For most guilds, it’s getting as many people as you can who don’t suck to fill the raid, and then you try to have some variety when possible for various roles and for gear variety. But if you happen to have 6-7 great hunters, they’re probably all going to get a spot in most guilds.

1 Like

First mistake. Listening to personalities.

a) Hunters do good DPS, if they’re played well. They do average DPS if they’re played badly or average.

b) Warriors do good DPS, but never did as much in Vanilla as they do on Private Servers.

Most definitely, especially after “revelations” about hit cap. Things we knew in Vanilla, were apparently lost for Private Servers, and then rediscovered in Classic. In Private Servers, Dual-Wield Fury Tanks are a valid choice because their hit cap was so damagingly wrong on those servers.

1 Like

What revelation? I’m not doubting, just very curious to see this.

I always thought it odd the PServer people talking about Warriors being top DPS by BWL. I never raided in Vanilla, but I remember reading guides, tips, and general knowledge where ever I could scrounge it up, that Warriors were a mid tier DPS. Forever chasing Rogues.

One of the reasons was because of what the OP mentioned; we warriors didn’t have a threat drop ability. I distinctly remember wanting one after starting raiding in TBC.

Private servers were low by 10% for melee characters dual-wielding.

Sorry, it was the Parry of 14% that they weren’t including. The thread is here:

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/bug-hit-tables/185675/12

1 Like

It’s 1.12. The threat cap isn’t really as big a thing anymore.

Tanks are gearing more for threat than survivability in the current meta, as it’s kind of unnecessary past a certain point, and benefits the raid more allowing the DPS to go harder. It was also more common that Mages and Warlocks had threat issues, as they tended to crit very hard very suddenly which was very spiky. Warrior tanks playing better (and Ferals providing high TPS) will make it easier for DPS to avoid out-threating a tank.

Hunters are ranged so easier to heal in most situations, but the highest possible DPS a Hunter can do assumes they run in and out of melee combat, so they may take a little more than they would if they stood just at range. Bonus though is that they can Feign Death to drop threat.

I have noticed a very bad habit among people preparing for Classic to assume that all raid comps should be based around the idea that raid members are in full Naxx gear at all times.

Warriors scale well, and hunters scale poorly, and so in full Naxx gear the disparity is pretty noticeable. In other gear? It shouldn’t be significantly noticeable, if the warrior even manages to be above the hunter at all.

2 Likes

I thought that might be the thread…that didn’t state anything new. Bosses apparently had the same parry value back then that they do in classic beta.

They did. I agree. The problem is that it wasn’t implemented that way on Private Servers, and most “theorycrafting” docs that aren’t original pedigree are based off that information and wrong.

So all the “Fury Warriors are a viable Tank” nonsense is being thrown out, because Fury Warriors dual wielding can’t push Parry off the table because they don’t have Block.

For ranged DPS mages were the highest, but good hunters easily beat average mages.

For warriors, they did have a short period of being top dps, when they were highly geared, meaning Naxx geared warriors.

The reason it gained traction for classic and on some private servers is because of the “infinite” time frame. As long as you raid at all, you’ll eventually be at the level to run naxx.

1 Like

The class changes with 1.12 talents and gearing properly for Fury (rather than Arms, which was what the majority geared for in vanilla until late in the patch cycle) is showing Warriors as top or near top DPS as early as MC.

One that i hoped would come out of Classic would be a meta different than that of private servers.

The worst part of it is that many of the old resources are dead, like Elitist Jerks and the original WoW forums.

Probably best that way. Let people figure things out for themselves :slight_smile:

If only. More likely people will continue to repeat Private Server myths until we build up a body of work documenting the accurate situation.

Speaking of Elitist Jerks, I did find a 12+ page 1.12 changes thread on there. But when i clicked on the link, it was dead :frowning:

I just don’t have the time to scour the web archives. it’s like finding a needle in a haystack.

Yeah I tried using Wayback to find information for it, but no dice. I tweeted at WatcherDev to see if he had a backup, but no response.

I’m slightly confused now. The thread states that +3 mobs, or mobs 3 levels higher than you, have a 14% chance to parry your attacks. How do you stop a mob from parrying your attack by using block?

And what Fury Warriors were DW tanking in raids? If that is what they were doing then yes, the 14% parry would make massive difference in how long that fury is gonna stay alive without a shield to block possible crushing blows.