Two different experiences…
I get no drops and what was up for roll was absolutely suboptimal for me…
Higher ilevel, but stat downgrades. So I let it all go to others in the group that it was an upgrade-upgrade for.
Aside from a pair of legs that absolutely nobody else wanted.
M+ is markedly more efficient.
I could pull an all leather group from guild, easily, and just go and push keys over and over until I can get the pieces I need.
In raid it’s pretty much a one shot chance until reset.
I can much more easily tweak RNG to favor me in M+ than in raid…
And effiiciency… let’s see…
Raid time is five hours a week…
Essentially 10 M+'s with a solid group.
So, roughly, for simplicity’s sake…
That would be 10 chances at a Crawg Tusk and one chance at a Diver’s Folly (2 with seal.)
There is a middle ground… but supporting and feeding the terrible decisions Blizz has been making to support their time-played-metric is, well, kinda dumb.
Don’t get me wrong, there is ways to improve your chances of rng but it’s still rng. Also, I doubt you’ll be completing 10, +10 keys within 5 hours. I doubt you’d finish 3 keys in 5 hours judging by that Temple run that took 1 Hour & 28 Minutes on the easiest week yet.
Don’t get me wrong, I think to get a goodie box as you say, you should have to time a 10+ key, not just finish it.
Doing my one key a week will give me substantial gear improvements and allow me to progress. It already took me from ilvl 417 to 422 in the past week. It’s certainly not nearly as fast as people who obviously spend a lot more time on the game like you, but it will eventually get me into heroic and mythic pickup raiding groups over the course of the patch, just like it did last patch.
Doing just raiding would not do that. If I just did normal raiding, I would never get the ilvl I’d need to get into successful no voice pickup heroic raiding groups.
The Mythic+ cache ilvl tops out at a +10 at just below mythic raiding ilvl. Mythic+ beyond the max loot level is best seen as recreational content for people who like speed running.
I agree that the reward to difficulty of war fronts - and of benthic gear - is also problematic, but that would be a different thread.
I haven’t actually failed horribly at anything, because I haven’t even applied for anything beyond a +7 yet. However, the attitude you describe does seem to be how you’re approaching raiding.
Was it an all leather group like she said? Three rogues and a resto druid could make up for a lot.
You’re cherry picking your b.s. NOBODY is guaranteed an upgrade from their weekly chest, and as someone who has participated in M+ every week since it was released, I can tell that the majority of items your get will be sidegrades, duplicates or absolute garbage.
So, stop it. You, nor I, can predict with any success just where your upgrades will appear. Basing your argument on this makes having a serious discussion with you very frustrating.
You move the goalposts every time your post, you express the worst possible outcomes for the things you dislike and overstate the value of things that went well for you, as if that’s the standard outcome.
Good luck.
If you’re talking about the one I tanked…?
Should I feel special that you decided to prowl IO?
Anywhooo…
One…
I don’t tank. I’m a DPS main.
I usually only tank as a last resort.
Two…
Shammy healer had just come back to the game and was trying to get back in the swing of healing.
And healing Veng as a shammy can be cancer.
Three…
Our mage was gloriously stoned.
Four…
The spriest was being carried because he just needed a key for the week.
Five…
Because of all of that it was just a ‘meme run’… We had no anticipation of timing it.
It was a “gitterdun” before reset.
Tbh… I was impressed we even finished it.
I mostly meme keys.
Ie… I generally tank, or dps, keys for alts, fresh 120’s, newer players, and undergeared or less capable players that need a key for the week.
My IO reflects that.
So… gj snooping?
How high are you right now that you’re using this to show how much better M+ is at gearing? I mean this has got to be the biggest reach I’ve read in a while. Impressive, given the state of these forums.
I’m going to guess that you missed my point.
I could spend five hours for two potential chances at a BiS weapon…
Or…
I could spend five hours for 10 potential chances at a BiS weapon…Plus an 11th potential chance at reset.
The example is greatly simplified, but not disingenuous.
I don’t do raid content, I’m working on M+ and getting better there. My perspective on the topic is do what you like and enjoy the process. I’m a Blizzard fan and have been playing one or another of their games since the original Diablo. One thing I think they are doing right is creating a game where you can’t pay to win and creating an environment that requires collaboration, yet allows for flexibility. There are drops I will never get because I don’t raid. I’m okay with that because I have that choice. I’m in a small guild, so my progress is slower as I move up the M+ keys, but I like the people with whom I play.
I guess I’m odd. I enjoy the grind and having something to work toward and love when I find pug groups that gel. JMHO
I freely admit that it’s a terrible attitude. Unfortunately, it’s the attitude the game encourages - almost forces - me to take, given my time constraints and preferences in content type, and given the near mandatory nature of Mythic+. I’d love it if the game were set up to let me do completion runs without downgrading someone’s key, but unfortunately, that option doesn’t currently exist, so I have to play the game the way it is.
Don’t get me wrong, either - I pull at a pace that will time the key if the rest of the group is adequately geared and doesn’t make any major mistakes. It’s just that that’s rare in pickup groups. In the meantime, I avoid doing explict “push” runs, since those are the ones that have the explicit goal of timing rather than just completing.
Let’s not pretend that all pickup tanks aren’t prima donnas in their own ways, either; I’m just more honest about it. And let’s not pretend that what I’m doing is any worse than the damage dealers that join groups, pull everything in sight, then leave when it turns out the group can’t carry them through it. At least the key holder gets a completion from me.
And yet, despite doing only your weekly +10 or so, you’ve got more gear from Mythic+ than from mythic raiding. Your only 455 piece is forged from Mythic+. Again, that’s more evidence that Mythic+ is overly generous with loot relative to raiding, as is demonstrated by every armory in the thread.
I didn’t say it wasn’t. The thing is, you only need a +7 to get a heroic ilvl cache, not a +17. Nor is your weekly +10 as hard as your mythic raiding, despite being a better source of gear.
I never once said anything bad about raids? Nor did I say it was easy. Nice deflect, it was a cute attempt.
No, it really wouldn’t. Otherwise everyone would be playing three rogues and druid. Some people are just not capable, and that’s fine.
Oh boy, where to start!
Sorry you’re incapable of playing multiple roles but even the dps ones are pretty sad.
Did the shaman take a 3 day weekend or something? Cause his gear / keys ran doesn’t add up with someone “coming back to get into the swing of things” He got +2 on 10+ keys you wasn’t there for same day.
Nice lie, it’s obviously a you problem.
Don’t do drugs? Cute excuse.
He timed keys same day +10 and you wasn’t there again
Shocking, you was the problem again?
You failed that key 13 days ago, August 1st. (Thursday) Do caches reset on Friday morning? I’m so confused, asking for a friend.
With you tanking, me too.
None of the other players seemed incapable going by what I can see, only you.
I’m so happy you pay attention to me. Wanna be friends?
Awww…
Did I hit a nerve?
I apparently did, because you went all out.
Classic deflection. It’s the mating call of a loser.
Ad hominem attacks.
Not a good look.
Again… did I hit a nerve?
As I stated before… I -must- have to warrant you running to IO…etc
The nerve hit seems to be yours cause even trying to throw your friends under the bus you was caught in lies. Now you’re trying to say I’m the upset one. 
All I did was put in minimal effort using a site everyone has access to.
Throwing them under the bus?
I stated the reasons why -we- as a group decided to meme the run… which included the fact that -I- was tank.
Considering the circumstance we decided to have fun and not stress on it.
Dear lord it must suck to feel that -everything- must be taken seriously.
And big deal. I got the date wrong. Considering that was the same week I had to have the horse I’d had since I was 15 put down… my apologies for confusing the dates… How can you ever forgive me.
As for nerves… I’m not the one slinging shots… You are.
So…
I’d be elated to see the AP grind go away. It didn’t bother me as much in Legion because the artifact weapons were cool, and the mechanic was still novel. In BfA, it’s become a total slog. I really hope this type of mechanic doesn’t define WoW going forward the way it has these last two expansions.
What, I think, was probably the most tolerable about the artifact weapon was the fact that the grind gave a more tangible experience of accomplishing something.
Farming AP for the neck is like throwing pebbles down a deep well.
If your mythic cache is 10 ilvl higher than any of your equipment, you’re almost guaranteed an upgrade. That’s simple math.
As long as the cache is higher ilvl than the majority of my equipment, I have a good chance of getting an upgrade. That’s basic probability theory.
Maybe eventually I’ll be running a weekly +10, and yes, after a couple months of that, I’ll be getting mostly duplicates. I’ll worry about that when the time comes; I’m sure I’ll be used to it from sharding raid drops by then.