No not a single score, but a parse is a good place to start. If we can do it for raids even with all the what ifs you listed, why can we not do it for M+? Why is it that when people suggest a replacement to IO half the people here are all up in arms telling us it’s not possible, yet when we point out it’s perfectly fine for raids people either go quite or try to make excuses.
So you say priority interrupts, but how many people have you ran with in M+ who got a grand total of zero interrupts? We have all been there, most specs have an interrupt button, we can all register at least something, so if we had a log for it and you had a DPS or tank who has an average nothing and you are trying to form a group for spires it would be pretty obvious not to take them.
There are addons in game that spit out damage you took that could have been avoided. There are CC counters and CC breaks built into logs, who cares if they are priority or on the correct targets, registering something is at least showing you are trying and doing more than just stand there watching your action bars all day. Did you use your CD’s at the right time? Well if you did you would have a healthy DPS reading on average compared to other people at the same iLVL with the same spec, that’s why parses exist in the first place, to give a generalised bit on information to help see the performance of players outside of just 3/10M or 6/10H.
Because currently that’s all the IO score is, nothing more than someone telling you they have an AOTC, without logs you have zero knowledge of how they got that far.
Without the logs, this is simply impossible. You can never correctly gauge one player over the next if people don’t give the information needed, and all it takes is Blizzard to use the information they already gather in game and upload it to a site that can use and track this information, like the ones that are already out there and do just that.
Raid parses are exactly why it’s a bad idea. If you’re ever assigned to doing mechanics, you can basically kiss your parse goodbye.
It’s definitely possible, but why would you bother? It’d create the exact same issue, where you think you’ve got a good enough score for content, but you still get declined because better people apply to the group.
Or in some cases make yourself look better, like if you are assigned to healing Kael’thas on the Sun King fight and you have balance druids who can innervate you and let you just go, you will end up getting top HPS and parsing really high.
I should know, I got 96% healing parse on my last Sun King fight by doing just that, spam healing Kael’thas. And people know this, we are not oblivious to just having a number show up on screen and thinking it is the be all and end all.
I would much, so much rather be declined because someone else had a better DPS or HPS or damage prevented or interrupts or whatever than I could do, so so much rather that than be declined because someone else got carried to some arbitrary IO score, was able to armour stack and got lucky with their iLVL.
Because at the same time I could see people who have a good IO/iLVL and go “Yeh but their DPS is absolute garbo, they pull no interrupts, take a lot of avoidable damage and die often”, it would be much better, it would mean players have to 100% put in some effort in order to get invited to pug groups rather than be carried and try to survive on their merits, we all know how bad that goes.
Obviously if you have 2 choices you choose the better one. The issue here is the first guy is turned down only in the hope the 2nd guy applies to join. The 2nd guy may not exist but the first guy is there ready and eager. You have 2 options here The first guy or no one. Heck you might have 20 of the first guy eager, the right ilvl,m right class, ready to go but they are being turned down in the hope the other guy comes along.
Yeah people definitely want to get carried for free that’s been a thing for awhile. If they’re lucky they get someone who is bored on an alt trying to get an item that can carry them some.
Another thing is that there are no fullproof methods. Someone who has AOTC might not be a great player and not know all the mechanics very well, or even play their class very well. Parses are only an indicator of how much dps that person can pump out ideally, but if they are pumping and ignoring mechanics for a higher parse, aren’t a team player and will quit after 1 wipe, etc… would you really want that orange parsing jerk in your group? IO might be good as an indicator especially if they’ve cleared every boss multiple times, but even then you don’t know until you get that person in your group.
But that’s not how the information would be parsed though. It’d work like how people see logs and say “hey, he averages orange parses so he must be pretty good” and don’t look past that surface judgement because that takes wayyy too long.
Like the entire reason that RIO is used as a metric over logs (besides the fact that people rarely log keys) is that to actually use logs effectively is both time and knowledge heavy and any effective tool for pugging needs to be able to let you make a somewhat informed decision within seconds.
And the only way to use logs like that is to boil them down to a parse, which functionally isn’t a whole lot different in usability to RIO score.
But this is almost never the case. Unless its like 4 am in the morning and youre desperately looking for a tank, then you will most certainly be picked even without credentials.
This is the sad mindset behind this. “All the people with higher IO then me are boosted, just lucky or totally play worse than i do”
A) A system that is able to properly evaluate your performance (and not just dps, # of kicks, etc.) is not possible. There are waay too many factors that determine the outcome of a key than using your kick on cd on some low prio cast.
B) If we magically had a system that could accurately score your performance, what do you think would change? Do you really believe that all those people who “totally” amazing players, but have low io and come to the forum to cry are going to parse orange and get their invites all of a sudden? Ofc they wont, they will still get declined because the number of people who play better than them is still the same.
Here is the issue, for alot of people, the majority of pugs are worse than themselves. Progression doesnt mean the same to multiple people. Like I dont need 25+ pulls on a boss to get the fight down in my head. I need maybe 10 solid pulls. ALOT of pugs sit here at 100+ sire wipes… so if I am making a group for 10 wipes when the average is sitting at near 100, I cant invite the average. I tried making “open” pug groups in the past. It just doesnt work. The average non-guild wow playerbase is just too bad at the game unfortunately.
This has the same reason as above but theres more to it. ESPECIALLY this xpac and early into the xpac. So with the loot being diminished to the point that it is, there is no point in staying in a key that is failing. That’s why you see people especially above 10 dip after 1-2 wipes. Also, because it’s still early in the xpac, the average player doesnt have super inflated raider io score yet. and since raider .io shows failed keys if they are higher than timed keys, there REALLY is no reason to stay in groups that may fail because if you stay in a group that may fail the key, now you have an untimed key showing as your top run for the dungeon and you wont get into groups. This carries over into making groups. I get no loot and my io get’s griefed if I fail a key right now so on top of the average playerbase just being bad, we have to contend with that.
While I may find it silly myself, my thought has always been, it’s their key, they can do whatever they want.
Same with this, and even though you may not like this, there are plenty of people who join these groups. And as always, if you don’t like it, create your own Heroic CN group.
Overall tbh I am more annoyed by entitled people like yourself than the weirdos who make these groups wanting higher io than they have or whatever… At least I can respect them as they are putting in the effort to actually form a group rather than complain about groups on the forums.
IO is the only reason M+ is even bearable. Discontinuing it would either cause M+ to die or for people to just flock to Manbabyraider IO, or whatever the new one would be called.
You would be surprised about the skillset of some players.
Average parses would tell a huge story, one orange parse is easy to cheese, but an average across keys would tell the true story of how someone really is. And by cheesing parses to help someone look good means you are most likely going to suffer and look worse than what you are. It would mean players cannot just carry someone and give them an IO. They need to choose, help someone else get a good parse, or help myself get a good parse, no longer would they be able to simply sell a carry because it would mean a lot less if IO wasn’t the only metric.
How is that any different to how RIO is used though?
All you’re doing is using a surface level judgement of a players performance, in logs case, their DPS/HPS parses and in RIO, their propensity to time keys and the average keys they do.
logs are so much more than the shiny splash page number…and the vast majority of players out there have no idea how to dig into a log to get an idea of what actually happened.
I get why you are wanting this information, but I think overall it would be more harmful than helpful. People would stop doing mechanics because parses. Pugs are going to most likely never have as good of m+ parses as those who run with organized groups (have you SEEN how much some potato pug tanks just pull mobs out of WS, flame patch, dnd, etc?).
and then there’s the matter of healers. how are you gonna judge them because healer parses are SO much more than simply “healing done”.
either way, brb gonna go ignore mechanics, get my priest friend to PI me every time my 2 min is up, and cheese some parses.