As a user of Raider IO, it’s always embarrassing to see so many from my side come into these threads and agree with themselves on their alts.
That’s always the risk of different metrics, you may get the opposite effect you were expecting. However, to his point, very few people who are given metrics know how to properly review or understand them.
Well, if I’m having problems making that rating, I’ll need to improve until I hit it. It’s solo, so I can improve it on my own. It’s not mandatory because I can just find a guild. It will make me better prepared to do the DPS that I need to while having the reaction time to interrupt/dodge abilities. It sets the groundwork. I also noted that some people have high IO scores and just don’t know what they are doing. These could weed those people out. There are benefits to this. The downsides are development time and it potentially being used like RIO is now.
Honestly, I don’t get the pushback for something like this. I’ve stated that it’s a misconception that it’s elitists/min-maxers causing these problems. The intent is to help those that are having a problem. I’m suggesting a solution to the problem. I don’t feel that forming your own group adequately addresses the problem. Yes my suggestion may still cause gating, but at least that gating is solo content and not potentially circular with RIO, where you need a decent RIO to get into groups to get a better RIO.
Go ahead, call them out!
Unfortunately, that’s a violation of the code of conduct or else I would. It’s pretty easy to initially spot them. You’ll notice someone like their troll posts almost instantly, they’ll have the exact same syntax and even make the same grammatical errors. Once you see that, just check their collections.
I saw a guy in a thread yesterday having a full blown conversation with himself. It was strange.
Fun fact, it also shows your best run of each dungeon, and your best run overall.
Personally, i enjoyed the proving grounds and mage tower (since its mildly similar) and i wouldnt mind them coming back.
Now, if you want to include this to fight a specific problem, the question is wether this would actually alleviate the problem. And this is where i do have my doubts.
Yes, you would have something that you could work on with no barrier and noone to look at you weirdly if you fail. You could have a low io, but be a beast in this mode to show everyone that youre totally worth it even witht the lower rio. All this might work to reduce the influence of rio itself.
However, you would still have rio itself. In M+, its not just about knowing your rotation and doing a kick every once in a while. You need to know when to pop your CDs, what specific casts have to be kicked, where do you have to stun, how much can you pull, what other random stuff you can do. All this isnt taught by proving grounds and it gets more important the higher in keylevel you go.
While proving grounds and an ingame display for them might slightly alleviate the issues some people have, i believe it will ultimately only be a drop in the bucket and not have any real influence.
Isnt this just for ingame stuff? Ive seen quite some people call out perceived alt-posters in this forum.
I just always wonder if people believe im some other posters alt. I would even post with my main, but i play on EU, so this isnt possible…
You’re right raider io does make it difficult. The unfortunate reality is if you live the pug life you gatta live the pug rules.
Doesn’t matter if by some miracle blizz removes raider io the pug community will just find another metric to go by.
The mods lump it along with any posts they disagree with into “non constructive” which they then categorize as “trolling.”
And yes, bring back Mage Tower.
You’re getting pushback because your “solution” doesn’t solve anything. A solo mode, no matter how hard doesn’t tell me anything about your experience within the dungeon itself.
RIO works for a metric because it’s based off the dungeons itself. I don’t need to convert anything “oh, you’ve done Endless Proving Ground 30, that’s equal to abooout 5/12M which is equal to about what you need to handle a 16 or 17”.
I can look at your RIO, see how many +15’s (or higher) you’ve timed, what your highest key for that particular dungeon is and then base my decision on that.
You’re getting pushback because you’re trying to solve a problem that doesn’t really exist. Groups are picky because it’s easy to make a group but people just don’t want to do it.
If I make a group for a +5, I have no reason to pick the people who need the skill or experience, because I’ll have half a dozen overgeared people apply to the group within seconds.
People have high standards, especially for DPS, because there’s no reason for them not to have.
Yeah so just push your own keys. I mean god I am as lazy and casual as you can get and I still faceroll +15s every week. Who cares what try-hards do in other keys? Just take whoever you want and cut the crying.
To be fair, you have mythic raiding achievements, ahead of the curves, etc. I think your definition of “lazy” or “casual as you can get” differs from the rest of the world.
Well, this by itself made clicking on the thread worth it.
See, all of this is easily avoided. Easily. And it’s done by doing one simple thing: find a guild, or a network of friends who you jive with. Set up a time. Go in together. Profit. The only people who are slaves to Raider IO are people in the pug world.
Yeah, that’s not what drove people away.
I see that point. I still think that it can be a nice stepping stone to get into M+. I also think it has value to improve executing rotations with distractions. Being able to just recognize that something is being cast and the need to interrupt it is still something people may need to learn how to do. Being able to maximize DPS while dodging abilities is also important. It’s something to improve the overall quality of the game and if done right, showing experience in this proving ground with experience in M+ will help form groups because there won’t be too much question of what you’re getting into. Please note that the intent isn’t to replace RIO, but to provide individual level performance metrics and a way for players to improve.
Correct, but it does show the potential of a player.
I’m not saying you don’t use RIO though. I even mentioned that you’d use both. One to get an idea of individual skill/competency, the other to get an idea about dungeon experience. You can make these conversions if you like, but at least you have a better idea overall.
I feel that it does. If I had an idea of how well a player performed at the individual level, I would be more open to creating groups. I’ve been burned using RIO/ilvl as metrics enough when forming my own groups to shy away from doing so.
What suggestions/solutions do other people have for helping people getting into/forming groups? I just feel at its core this is the problem that needs to be address. It’s a combination of player skill level, people thinking they are better than they really are, anxieties, and other factors. Is there anything that blizzard could implement to help with this? Is there anything that would help players learn what they need to in order to perform well in a dungeon/raid? Reading a guide may work for some people, but a hands on approach may work much better for others. I don’t feel it’s all laziness.
OP -
You clearly have failed in “researching” your topic here on the GENERAL DISCUSSION forums, and failed to realize that you are spewing more of the SSDD crap that ppl who have no clue what RIO is really about do.
There are threads upon threads like your redundant complaint, and there are MANY explanations on how RIO is used, and there are MANY suggestions on how you can get yourself a better RIO score.
Stop blaming RIO for you getting a crappy key you don’t want. That’s Blizzard’s RNG not an addon.
Stop blaming RIO for ppl wanting to run THEIR KEY how THEY WANT.
NO ONE owes you anything in this game, or in life. I used to try to be understanding about ppl like you, since I myself don’t run a lot of keys, my RIO is 350 I think…But I’m not on these forums crying about how unfairly I’m being treated b/c I have minimal experience in a +10 and I’m being refused when trying to sign up for a +15.
Are there toxic ppl using RIO? Yes.
Is RIO itself toxic? NO.
Just stop.
Far better tools than PG already exist for showing the potential of a player.
Logs for instance.
But looking for potential is the wrong thing to be looking for in a tool designed for PuG’ing. Potential is what you look for when you’re recruiting for a raid team, when you’re looking to build someone up over weeks, if not months.
The point of a PuG isn’t to invest in potential. It’s to get someone who is already capable of doing the content. To that end, a tools like ilvl, achivements and now RIO are far superior on that regard.
But what’s more likely.
Someone with a good RIO score performs poorly in the content he’s already proven he’s experienced.
Or someone with a good PG (or Torghast, or whatever) score performing poorly in content that they have the mechanical skill to handle, but have never actually experienced before.
Even guilds with the best players in the world still need to get experience on bosses before killing them.
Which is where such metrics fall short. The problem for “bad” players is rarely that they are just bad at their class, which is all solo content truly teaches you.
Though in general, I do think that there should be nudges from Blizzard to improve yourself in certain ways.
One of my favourite things about DH design is that you’re rewarded for using your utility in your kicks and purges, and as a result when I PuG, DH’s are among some of the most consistent players who use those tools.
Part of that is selfish, because people tend to prefer maximizing their own DPS over contributing through things like kicks and purges, but that’s selfishness that’s very easily turned towards improving your play, by making pulling off a kick or a dispel a net benefit, you will overall increase the playerbases tendency to do such things.
I have no ideas on how you could improve the group finder itself, especially for making groups. It’s not really something I’ve ever thought about and most improvements I would like would be more “advanced” settings, like latency or language filters, or even an option to see peoples keys when they apply to your group.
But I do think it’s something that could be done. I think I posted it earlier, but my belief is that high standards (mainly in regards to DPS) are purely because the power is in the group leaders hands, since there are so few people willing to do it.
I just don’t think adding a solo RIO would really accomplish what you’d hope it would.
Those that keep up with and sustain high level mythic plus keys usually choose others who keep up with the raider io system.
Those that don’t keep up high level keys have a large hill of work to climb in order to obtain a high level key without the aid of others with a key already.
So Mythic keys are not something you can jump in and do for a hour grab some loot and go and not do it for the next month. It sadly requires keeping up with. The community has built a all or nothing system that is difficult to break into for just a hour or two’s worth of fun.
This is why people like the OP happen, It’s also why “make you own group” seems to be such a non-answer. Your basically telling these people to invest 4 hours of work so they can have 30 minutes of fun in the level they do desire.
I think the key system is the culprit here. What if we just started a mythic plus, and went to the font of power and picked the level we want. If we win yay we get loot and a good amount of currency, if you loose the timer you only get some currency. Have the currency have a vender where you can buy stuff you may need if you have enough. Once you did the level / dungeon combo you get locked out for drops. I think this would end some of the gating that is happening.
RIO rating is the same as PvP rating. Don’t expect to get into a higher RIO or PvP group with little to no score/rating. Now you can get into lower groups and work your score up and/or pug your own group. Go try and PvP with little rating and you will actually get the same result. Both are competitive and both expect you to know what you are doing and know the strats. So yes people HAVE to be picky about who they chose.
Yea we need more topic like this because?
Good morning. I was trying to find information on how I could improve on this and it’s been a little tricky.
I’ll try to keep this short. I’m a returning player. I have a ilvl 450 resto druid that I wanted to gear up and when learning about mythic plus, I eventually heard about this addon. I’m not a huge fan of addons as I’ve heard many cases of commonly used addons having malicious things packed into them but I reluctantly downloaded it.
I wanted to build up this score of mine, so I tried joining 16 M2s and got declined to 14 immediately and 2 of them, I was invited but removed from the group less than 10 seconds later. One of the leaders whispered me and said something along the lines of “don’t waste my time, derogatory word for a person of a sexual orientation”. I didn’t understand what I did to provoke that but I shrugged it off. I tried again later and got similar results so I thought “maybe Friday isn’t a good day to do this” so I tried again the next day and it was no different." I got into a couple M0s invites but nothing there is an upgrade.
I even tried my own key but got no bites. I double checked to make sure I named the group the correct name of the dungeon and listed it as M2 in the event that something didn’t enter correctly. I’m a pretty intelligent person and I read that this stuff is easy for anybody but it seems there is some kind of disconnet.