I don’t see how the addon makes pugging awful it is specifically designed to allow group leads to filter out people who won’t succeed the dungeon. Arguably it probably helps completion rates significantly over just taking people on item level
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I don’t have a big problem with it. It gives me something to work on.
My mistake for misreading and assuming otherwise. I like it for personal “gains” tracking, too.
Wanting some way to know if people have a clue about Mythic+ is apparently crazy talk.
Nah. M+ and TF/WF bloating ilvl and stuff like Corruptions makes pugging awful.
Having a metric which gives you a quick example of your experience (which is the closest thing to skill in a pug context) is necessary in a world where ilvl means practically nothing regarding skill or character power.
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Ah the excuse making begins.
You realise that us “elitist neckbeards” aren’t the ones preventing you from doing you weekly 15 no leaver right? You know why? The actual elite players are doing 20-25 keys atm. I think you will find that the problem is your fellow casuals who are putting up keys and looking for high IO characters to carry them
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Just for fun - I decided to look up how many characters have gotten a IO score of at least 1000 this season. Currently that number is 1,351,883 - world wide. That is out of 4,485,194 characters evaluated.
Over 30% of the toons that have a mythic+ run on that website this season have been able to get at least 1000 score as of date of this posting.
That means multiple runs in the 10+ range that have timed decently. Elites do not make up 30% of the player base.
I think 30% of all characters that have touched mythic+ having seen all mechanics that mythic+ has to offer is acceptable number.
What is your number?
Source:
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-character-rankings/season-bfa-4/world/all/all/67594#content
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This might seem like an essay but I’ll try to cut it as short as I can.
When I pug for my keys I use raider io addon because, ill be honest, I don’t really have all day to look for players and I can generally use the score to gauge a player’s ability to do the dungeon. Now sometimes it isn’t the case and I have had questionable people with good scores but more often then not they are competent players and we successfully time whatever key i was running.
My initial reaction when I see lower io people sign up for my key isn’t “wow look at this noob wanting a high key” nor is it “lol is this guy for real? get outta here”. My reaction is simply “well this guy probably doesn’t have the experience of doing a dungeon at the key level I am trying so I cannot accept you”. Now if I sit with said individual he can probably prove to me that he is the most godly dps player this side of Kalimdor and I should clearly add this person to my group. The problem is that because I don’t have all day to get my dungeon runs done and I can only gauge their ability based off the # I see on my addon, then I have to turn them down and only invite people that have a score that’s good for the content I’m doing.
Honestly the mentality of wanting “elitists” to get off their high horse and just invite anyone who signs up isn’t going to happen. We want our keys timed, we want to push as far as we can. To expect strangers on the internet to shower generosity and +15 keys to everyone isn’t going to be a thing that happens really.
There are really only afew solutions to this problem.
#1. You can host your own keys. This atleast gives you the power of the invite.
#2. Play with guildies/friends. This is actually what I do the most. I only pug rarely.
#3. Join lower keys with less restrictive IO requirements or no io requirements and work your IO up. One of my good friends actually did this and went from 0 to 2670 all by himself (he plays at odd hours so we cant queue together).
To tie this all up I am sorry you are being denied access to higher level M+, but at the end of the day it is entirely up to the person with the key and 9 times out of 10 they only pick people with numbers that will yield them success. I can assure you its nothing personal if you get declined. Atleast it’s nothing personal from me.
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Now you say that, but your acheivements prove that your “main” doesn’t have any significant stuff done either.
I think the best fix to this problem is for Blizzard to incorporate better ways of indicating a player’s performance. For example, they could invest into a revamped proving grounds that become progressively difficult (or maybe use solo torghast?). Players can then gauge how well they are doing on their own in terms of their role in the group and other players can have a clear indication of the level of content the player can perform well in. This can be used in combination of raider IO. The proving grounds indicates individual skill level with their character/build while Raider IO indicates experience with the specific dungeons/M+ as a whole.
To the people suggesting “make your own group” as the solution. If it were that easy, do you think people would be making a fuss of this issue? Honestly, people are complaining about this because there is a problem. The misconception is that it’s the elitists or min-maxers because they tend to set the criteria that bad players use to exclude others. It’s clear that more needs to be done than what’s available right now in the game to make creating/getting into groups easier.
One last point/observation. In making my own group, my experience is that higher IO players are more likely to bail on keys if they start to go wrong, sometimes if it’s just one wipe when the key can still be made in time. There are also players that have no idea what they are doing with RIO scores that suggest they are competent at that level. From these observations I feel RIO is an insufficient measure of performance.
If it’s not that easy, where do all these groups come from in the listings? Seems fairly easy to me.
As someone who does suffer from social anxiety and an extreme lack of confidence, making groups is extremely tough and the “make your own group” suggestion doesn’t really work in my case.
I’m fortunate to have a guild and friends to run M+, which I’m very grateful for, otherwise I wouldn’t be doing it at all. But yep I have yet to make a group for anything in this game that isn’t super easy for that reason. I did manage to form for a couple of 0s about a month ago though because I had alchemy quests to do.
Proving grounds style content is not really the same as a M+ run what if the team pulls extra packs by accident can you handle that?
Given enough experience in the actual dungeons you realise its more than just posting the highest dps you can sometimes you need to hold your big damage for the next pull as it will wipe you if it lives too long.
Without actually doing the content its hard to prove you can do the content which is why M+ scales up and people can’t just walk in and select their level at will
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Well, some people are having problems with the current system. The ones that aren’t having problems with it are making these groups. I don’t see a problem with including better metrics in the game to help a subset of players that are having issues.
Yea, I see that. That’s why I’m saying to use it in addition to RIO. Individual performances from proving grounds shows competency with doing, for example, the DPS required for the content and interrupting abilities, while RIO shows experience. It’s also important to have a more difficult proving grounds so that people can use it in different ways, such as testing out new specs and seeing what level they drop off from meta specs. Think of it as more advanced target dummies if used in this way. Sometimes people have no idea how well they are performing or how well they can perform. It at least gives someone a way to improve on their own while taking out other factors that may blind someone to their actual individual performance.
Thank you thank you. Youre too kind!
The only people having “problems” are just plain lazy.
Yes thank you for your objective take on this issue with specific numbers and data. Try again tomorrow.
I dont think anybody disagrees with “better metrics”, but i dont think this would result in what you want it to. If you add proving grounds back in, it would basically be mandatory to at least have gold for dungeons 10 and above. And if we could then see your level in the endless mode, wouldnt we be pretty much back where we started? Good players have the higher level in this mode and decline more people according to this.
And the option of just making your own group where you can straight ignore anything you like would still remain.
I mean it is really not hard to get a 1k score and from there invites come a lot easier. Also, I don’t usually have that big of a problem finding groups and I’m a shaman. A class that apparently doesn’t get any invites.