Raid vs M+ vs PVP gear itemization (set bonuses)

I noticed that blizzard gave bonus iLVLs to raiders the last patch (last two bosses), and made it harder for M+ players to compete with raiders by removing titan forging. Fair enough, I disliked titan forging as much as the next guy.

But rather than just give the favored content more iLVLs (raids), how about we give everyone that enjoys doing different content a fair shake.

For example:


To expand on point two: in the current meta, raid set bonuses could be related to single target damage and reducing the effects of sanity drain. M+ set bonuses could be related to AOE damage and reducing the effect of the seasonal affix. PVP set bonuses could be the trinket and some type of control effect or bonus damage that makes sense in PVP (eg, do bonus damage to a target that is currently stunned/slowed/etc).

Also, why does PVP get recolors of the raid set, but mythic plus gets a trash transmog that looks the same every season in BFA? I mean the BFA M+ gear looks like leveling gear. Maybe if you beat 10+ the loot you get is a heroic recolor and if you beat 15+ the loot you get is a mythic recolor. I mean it works for PVP why not M+?


I wouldn’t mind this. Raiding is my least favorite yet usually contains BiS items – always discouraging.

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Did they say that they were bring back pvp vendors in SL?
so the pvpers dont have to do raids to get bis?

Did u even read the post?

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And maybe some gear from Archaeology; you find pieces from remains and polish them or something. I really enjoy Archaeology and I think it would be cool to have it reward gear like the world quests. I’d love to get a full set of Archaeology gear on my alts! :smiley:

The thing current philsophy of Blizzard, which I agree with. Is that you’re playing World of Warcraft, not a raid/M+/pvp simulator. Which means that every content has some bis piece in it because you should be playing the whole game. That’s how it’s balanced to be fair. If you want the best gear you can’t just stick to one activity. You can get close to bis gear just by sticking to one content, but if you truly want the best gear I think it’s totally fine that the game ask more of you.

As for the idea of tier sets, would be fine if they add some in pvp and raiding not in m+. Personnaly, I feel m+ gear reward is good enough considering it’s not weekly locked and that you still get loot for failing.

It could use more cosmetic rewards but at the same time it doesn’t need much people will do it just for raider io score. The biggest thing they should do for M+ is add atleast a new dungeon each patch, now that would be progress.

Archeology has been pretty much abandoned. To be fair professions as whole are pretty bad. And I don’t see so far Shadowlands saving them.

Pvp vendors are just like conquest right now but you can decide the order in which you get the items (which is actually still a big upgrade). You can only get normal raid and maybe heroic raid equivalent gear and weapons atm require some achievement.

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I didn’t say off set pieces can’t have secondary stat variances between the three sources.

But the ilvl should be equivalent between all three

I only play tanks and tanks have recently faced heavy nerfs in arena PvP. I really don’t think I should be forced to play resto or boomkin arena just to get bis tank gear.

Giving set bonuses focused on the content where you get the gear from makes sense. I mean ST damage still helps in M+ but is far more important in raiding and vice versa for AOE damage.

Also, M+ gear needs a raid tier look. Looking like leveling gear is insulting to those pushing 20-30+ keys.

This is the end game for these people and truthfully M+ at those levels is much harder than mythic raiding.

It costs too much to make new looking sets probably so id settle for raid tier recolors.

It doesn’t need to considering also that raiding has pretty much gotten attacked a lot (by having tons of rewards now being acessible outside of raiding throught the years), it needs to have it rewards made clear. They did that by scaling some bosses higher.

You can get high rating as tank no matter, but like all content some specs or class will be prefered if you want to have an easier time.

I just don’t feel m+ need more gear drop. Like I said it already has great rewards with not much downsides with no lockout.

Raiding gear has about the same look from LFR to mythic with some variations. M+ gear is still dungeon loot. Sure they could add challenge mode type of rewards. But they added instead a season mount. Sure they could add more cosmetic rewards, but M+ is still thriving without them.

Depends what you define as difficult.
Just getting 20 people on the same schedule is a level of difficulty that m+ will never have. Just wiping 300-400 times on a boss for me will never be comparable to m+ format.

You also have to consider that there’s no new mechanics after +10 for m+, you’re just fighting bigger numbers but doing the same mechanics. I respect people pushing higher, and definitly the personnal responsabilities can be higher. But that’s not only what define the difficulty in an mmo.

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This is clearly not what they’re doing. PvP gear is always inferior to PvE gear.

By having set bonuses that benefit raiders dropping from raid, this gives raiders the best gear for raiding without messing with M+ and PVP. The only reason you would want raiding gear to be best overall is if you want an unfair advantage in the other two domains.

That is like Blizzard saying ok, M+ 25 is really hard, clearly harder than anything else in the game, let’s give it ilvl 500 drops. Then those M+ players go to raids and dominate the dps rankings or PVP rankings. It clearly doesn’t feel good.

Also, in order to get good enough at M+ to do 25+ keys probably takes more total time then doing mythic raids. with those hundreds or thousands of hours why are M+ players rewarded with trashy leveling transmog? They deserve either their own transmog or a recolor of the PVP/raid tier.

And like I said I’m fine with content interacting with each others. Because it’s a game about more than one content.

It’s 10 ilvl give or take atm on some pieces of gear (at best about 3-4), some sockets, corruption, essences etc. have bigger impact. You can still compete with those people, but if you want to be able to perfectly compete then aim at mdi, the game itself is not where the real competition takes part.

If you compare top M+ runners, compare them with top mythic guilds. No M+ people are not playing more or preparing more than top mythic guilds.

I got my bis azerith chest piece for unholy for all seasons that I played BFA. Some classes/specs really like pvp trinkets for pve.

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How can you say mythic raid takes more time when the world first is always done within a month or much less.

How long did the world first 30+ take? Much much much longer and much much much more work.

Infinite scaling makes anything the hardest content by definition.

We could add infinite scaling to islands and a +147 island is how now harder than mythic Nzoth. Maybe it should drop the best gear?

At any rate I’m not arguing that m+ should drop better loot, but the same loot with different set bonuses.

But if one loot source should be higher than the other it makes sense that M+ should drop the higher loot since it scales in difficultly far beyond mythic raiding.

Having raids drop higher ilvl loot is a slap to the face of dedicated PvP and M+ players.

I mean I tanked both M+ and mythic raids last season.

I took noticeably more damage in M+ @15+ than in the mythic raid where I basically felt invincible.

The only challenge of raiding is forcing 20 people, that are good at the game, to log in for the same six hours each week. Which is actually difficult since this is a video game and nobody is accountable for anything.

Players playing 7 days a week like it’s their job? WIth tons of PTR preparation and team working on strats and addons on the background? With tons of grinding outside of it too just to get to that point?

You couldn’t do a +30 at the start, it’s not a question of how long it took to get there because you couldn’t get there. Your dps was just not high enough to get there without more corruption and corruption vendors (which increased people control over their corruption).

Even without any change to m+, m+ will keep being one of the best way to get rewards in the game. People won’t stop doing m+ if the 2 last boss of raids offer better loots. And if mythic raiding is that easy, then just go do it. It’s simple, if you think M+ takes that much time then using some of that time for mythic raiding should be simple enough.

We wish this were true, but the gear in the vendors dont contain all the stat iterations.

Plus, it seems that upgrades are locked behind rating. This is a problem because doing a +15 is infinitely easier than getting 2400.

Isn’t this really just Raiders vs m+ ? where raiders and m+ players have to bounce in each others content to get their BIS .

Meanwhile pvpers have been doing this since vanilla and its the norm

The problem with pvp rating is that less there’s people participating, more it’s harder to go up in rating.

And I wouldn’t blame people for not pvping in BFA, probably one of the worse expansion for pvp balance and pvp systems as a whole. Even without 8.3 pvp was still a clown fiesta with still weird gear scaling, balance being too slow and etc. I’m sorry for anyone that like pvp.

I’ve been saying this since Legion. That the 3 end games available, should have their own set bonuses for wearing equipment from that area of content.

There should even be a Open World set for people who don’t do raiding, M+, or PvP as their end game too.

Now, all they have to do is tune the set bonuses to encourage wearing those sets for those end game activities. Easy to balance. Easy to tune. Creates one central point of failure to tune and adjust.

Even though I don’t seriously arena PVP. I agree PVP gear is a bit hard to come by. They should make it that more rating = more points. I mean they could remove the rating cap to get pieces if they still have one. If you put 300 hours into raiding, pvp, or M+ I think your gear should look about the same obviously.

If you do M+ you don’t need to complete 15s to get the best azerite pieces so why do you need a high rating in PVP. You should just have to play more. Playing more will make you better anyway, and increase your rating anyway.

To be honest I wouldn’t even care if they gave away top tier gear from random bgs. Maybe give a small fraction of conquest per random BG and daily/weekly quests that encourage proper play of the objectives.

I haven’t seriously pvp’d in a while, so maybe these changes already exist. I play mostly tanks.