Raid Tuning Coming June 21

272 is fine for you. You just raid, you don’t push keys. I don’t need you to tell me what is or isn’t fine when you do easier content than I do. I tell you what is fine, and I say 272 is not really “fine” unless it rolls avoidance for 4/5 players in the party.

If you only do raiding, 265 or 272 gear doesn’t matter for you, but it does for me. You don’t need gear if you only raid. You don’t need to M+. The reverse is not true - high key pushers need to extract every edge they can get their hands on since high key pushing is basically PvP against the other pushers.

what other people ilvl is
doesnt really affect me or you
dont go telling others
what they need and dont need
you sound like you are entitled
progression is the only game left
unless you mount/xmod farm


you’re missing the point. 5mans should not give raid gear. raids should give raid gear. where’s the confusion?

This raid has such a hilariously low turnout that if things continued unnerfed only half the guilds that got CE last tier would be getting it this tier.


I disagree. That’s the “confusion” I guess, lol.

Thanks for the nerfs but unfortunately it is too late for our team. This raid expansion was turning out to be the longest progression for us. Our norm is to get AOTC in 2 months. Castle Nathria was finished in 3months for us. Sanctum was 4 months. And this raid we will not complete because after 3 months, we still haven’t defeated Anduin.

I understand mythic raiders need a difficult journey, and I understand that you don’t want the jump from heroic → mythic to be too big, however this expansion seemed to focus on making the raid punishing and a chore every reclear.

I guess my group is no longer heroic raid worthy if this is the difficulty blizzard likes. We can clear 15s with no issues but heroic (which drops lower ilvl gear) is too difficult.


You were supposed to buy AOTC for WoW tokens. You really think the motivation for having the raid not be fun was any deeper than that?

Then why is it so easy to make gold in this game?

1 Like

From your perspective, from mine too. It isn’t for the majority.

More motivation for ppl challenging high-end contents = more subs(who are not boosters or bots) = a healthier in-game environment.
I couldn’t see any thing wrong.

Don’t know why those noisy-minorities-who-think-themselves-are-majority on icy-veins or wowhead etc. keep whining and assaulting casual/light players.
“xxxx(specific group of players) don’t deserve/has no use of high-end gear.” is a really selfish and disgusting argument.
Don’t forget WoW is a game, better gear = better dps/hps/survivability = more happiness/vanity, as long as players paid for the game and playing legally, they should get most part of it.

If not, for those so called (in-game) elitists, why should your boss/country give you money? They should just simply put you into a cage and throw in some raw food every day, you won’t die if you don’t have a yacht or a big house.

Oh, even for world top 10 g(b)u(o)i(o)l(s)d(ter)s who killed bosses after hundreds of wipes and doing 10-20 full clear runs every week, they still wipe on Anduin/Jailer a lot, just watch it on Douyu in chn, even after nerf, mythic bosses are far from “too easy”.

Designing future raids please make them fair and not make them for world first and some other competitive scene because they are not the majority player base and who aren’t the ones who are paying the bills.

The casuals are the one paying the bills and raids should be designed for fun and not anything else but since these nerfs just proves that aiming for the world first crowds isn’t the way to DESIGN NOR MAKE RAIDS. I don’t care how you people spin it cause this is NOT the way to design raids.

Because the difference between professional team and “normal,regular” players is big. Blizzard needs to think if the game is mainly for “professional” or for the public.

And with pre made gear sets to avoid what’s happened the past few Tiers.

The original post has been updated to reflect that we intend to include the following additional changes:

The Jailer

  • Jailer melee damage reduced by 25% on all difficulties.
  • Torment damage reduced by 30% on all difficulties mythic.
  • Unholy Eruption damage reduced by 30% on all difficulties mythic.

Nice! Thanks for the nerfs, they were needed so much!

And please in future do not overtune raids so much to begin with. Its not fun to bash your head against the wall for hundreds of wipes.

I would pay to watch that, no kidding.


My guild finally got AOTC this previous weekend after 3 weeks of banging our head against the wall trying to get H Jailer down and almost 100 wipes so proud to have gotten him down before these nerfs but glad to see this boss eased up a bit too. Definitely needed changes to this boss.

The auto damage nerf seems nice.

Jailer really liked to one shot tanks out of nowhere.


He does exist. Guess the Blue CM only responds to things when it pleases him.

I think it’s just a numbers a game and they screwed this one up hard. Too tough to begin with for your average raider and players struggling even just for AOTC to the point we are burning out before even starting mythic.

If not enough players are clearing the raid, or even attempting to raid, they reduce difficulty and keep reducing it until we eventually start seeing more and more players clearing, for sure they will have a KPI requirement on this, as in 10% of attempts should be clears, or 20% of raiders should be clearing bosses, or whatever. And if less people are clearing than they plan, nerf.

Back in the day they used different tools to help raiders instead of just nerfs, like the ICC and Dragon Soul damage buffs where over time the raid would get easier by applying a stacking buff each week, no need to detune the raid. And in DS you had the option to turn off the buff so you can still raid as it was for the first raiders who attempted the raid.

They should use something similar to this for all future raids instead of just trying to nerf the raid over and over. Sure one boss spell hits too hard, another is too weak, but that’s all about balance and if they allow us a stacking buff over time than it will still balance out in the end.