Today I do not put a point into Ret pally’s Radiant Glory. But I’ve been wondering if I should try it out…wanted to ask the pally community here about it.
I love Avenging Wrath. With the other talents that compliment it..Avenging Wrath is a solid damage, healing, crit, & haste buff for 24 seconds that I can cast once a minute.
Radiant Glory ties AW to Wake of Ashes. I can’t cast AW any longer, but Wake of Ashes activates AW for 12 seconds…and Wake of Ashes has a 30 second cooldown.
What’s your game?
- Keep Avenging Wrath as a separate manual cast for once a minute? This frees up a talent point in the retribution tree for something else.
- Put a point in Radiant Glory. This removes the AW manual cast, ties it to Wake of Ashes…meaning now your AW is on 30 second cooldown for half the normal AW duration?
Thanks.
Currently, theres two “builds” floating around on Ret: 30sec and 1min.
30s build is based around Radient Glory and 30sec Cooldown Divine Toll. This build should take talents that buff Hammer of Wrath and prioritize getting nice Proc trinkets over more “big button” trinkets like Algatahar Puzzlebox.
- 30sec build should be an AoE consistent performer, where no matter if tank is pulling big, small, funnel, or no funnel you always (or soon) can press Wake of Ashes and start blasting.
1min build is based on having great funnel damage on a prio elite mob target or boss that adds can be included with. Examples would be the Merciless Subjicator mob from Seat of the Tri or Tree Boss from Algathars. This build takes Execution sentence and troes to maximize its effectiveness with 1 minute wings/Crusade. Strong on use trinkets like Puzzle box habe a great place here, as you are prioritizing stacking damage into an Execution Sentence window.
- 1min build is a prio target hero. You job is to identify any situation with “mega pulls” and target the mob with the scariest abilities or the highest health. This build is more dependant on tanks pullIng style and what the dungeon offers in general, but can put some great prio burst on specific targets.
- This is a build where you will have to ask and answer, “do i have cooldowns?”. When you have wings and Exe Sen up you can and should engage, when you don’t, you should delay or chain pull.
- Additionally, things need to live long enough where Exe Sen can actually complete its window - faceroll content that you greatly outgear will not benifit as much from the 1min build.
Currently, both builds are strong enough at what they are trying to accomplish to be worth using, at least situationally.
9 Likes
If I may add on what Yekal explained quite competently.
The 1min build with Execution sentence is very hit or miss in lower M+ keys.
Even the big add can die before ES hits and you’re often left with a lot of Wing uptime by the time a pack is done.
For example, with my group of friends and with pugs, on 10’s I will usually pick Radiant Glory because of that.
In raid, it is very encounter dependent.
Some encounters have amplified phases where you want to have ES to maximise the damage.
While others are too hectic to make good use of it and you’re better off blasting every 30 sec (dreamrift).
4 Likes
Execution Sentence is a very nice ability, but it requires the fight (or the tank pulling) to mesh well with extended burst windows every minute. 24 seconds is a long time on trash or a pack of adds.
On the other hand, Radiant Glory (assuming Templar) buffs every Wake of Ashes, every Hammer of Light (except the proc ones), every Shake the Heavens, every Divine Toll, every Divine Exaction, and every Divine Hammer. Being a 30 second cycle also makes it almost completely agnostic of fight length or pull cadence making it very good in fights with weird timers or pugging M+ with tanks you don’t know. Its also fantastic in delves and for questing.
For me personally, I use the Radiant Glory build in all situations except pure single target raid fights. I’m currently doing M+ in the 11-12 range and Radiant Glory still feels better there. This may change if I push to the 13-15 range because things will be living longer and prio damage becomes more important, but I’m not sure yet.
I have honestly toyed with the idea of dropping Crusade to pair Execution Sentence with Radiant Glory, but I’m not certain that would be a good idea.
try the 3rd build
take radiant
take es
dont take the woa extender capstone
does very good un both st and aoe
imo its better than both the build talked about
Are you talking about not taking Burn to Ash?
I’m not sure about that advice? 
Burn to Ash is an extremely powerful capstone, especially this expansion for Midnight. Not taking it would be a noticeable dps loss.
1 Like
I also found whatever mob you cast it on was subconsciously focused by the other 2 DPS in the run too. I miss it in higher keys sometimes but ultimately it’s not worth it.
1 Like
Yeah and the fact that our set applies Expurg and that burn to ashes increases dot damage…
I’m not sure about it either…
2 Likes
Not only that, but other things stack with it;
Empyrean hammers
Divine hammer
Consecration
Truth’s wake
Dawnlight
Sun sear (?)
All stack with DoT damage increase talents
4 Likes
OP I don’t think by experience I can answer your full question but consider this, having rg is a guarantee your hero talent of choice is always amped up every time you use it with wake, and since both hero tree’s activation does a good amount of damage, I prefer to always have it amped with AW.
1 Like
I know this has been said already, but I’m going to say it as well- Burn to Ash is a very strong talent. Assuming you’re Templar, both Shake the Heavens/Empyrian Hammers and Divine Hammer count as dots and are boosted by BtA, plus our tier set is based around a dot it boosts.
Also, if you’re running a Radiant Glory build then every Truth’s Wake is going to have the increased crit chance from wings and will extend itself quite a bit.
The way things are currently I would bet that Burn to Ash is our strongest capstone. I would not skip it in any build.
2 Likes
dunno sims domt work correctly and it does well for me
This is a great discussion and I have learned quite a bit. Thanks to everyone!
4 Likes
i mean, how are sims not working correctly?
case in point
the devs tried to tune according to sims that were so wonky, that the tuning they did was so obviously incorrect, that classes that werent supposed to be fantastic are op
IE
ele shaman– incredible burst and op sustain to name 1– they buffed ele last minute by 30%! probably because many popular streamers play ele like petko
- raidbots sims are never correct– i sim and make sure i sim with no buffs, yet when i go to dummies, my damage is always a lot higher
if you have a fool proof method for siming properly id love to be taught
and to your point about how are sims not simming correctly
well 30s wings WITH Execution Sentence is top build everytime I sim, yet everyone here says that cant be right because the capstone removed to ES is too strong, which I dont believe
and theother reason I dont believe it is that if I go 1min wings, remove the wake capstone and replace it with the capstone that adds more Holy power damage right below ES– the damage is higher
and lastly– nothing to do with sims per say
but they buffed our FV by 30% then with 12 hours NERFED it by 15% and 2 weeks ago? gave 15% BACK to (so full 30% now)
ONLY FOR PVP
ret ST for pve is still not average we LOOK like we are doping great because this seasons
RAIDS arent raids, they are Mplus Raids.
So we benefit from lots of PAD damage to PAD the damage meters
Ok let’s eat this in small pieces.
What are you referring to?
They aren’t using simcraft or raidbots to sim the classes.
They are most likely using an internal tool so how can you even tell if their private tool is even wonky or not?
You can’t make that determination.
That’s non-sense, they don’t work like that.
If popularity had an effect on tuning, how come one of the most popular class (us paladin) took so long to get tuning for Prot and Holy?
Known bugs on sims are usually disclosed on the version if you care to dig for it.
You’re answering your own question, it’s PVP.
PVP is much more dynamic and shifting and hence much harder to balance and they don’t want PVE changes to constantly modify the PVP ecosystem because they need to analyses PVP on its own.
This has no meaning.
There are always raid fight with adds and always has been.
Edit
I forgot, you’re right ES and RG sim very close to the other builds, at least for me as well.
2 Likes
To be fair, they did that because they heavily nerfed Divine Exaction in PvP, so Blizz buffed FV for compensation.
1 Like
dummies are bugged in game and dont reflect proper sim numbers
its called a patchwerk sim because its based on bosses like patchwerk which are just dummies that hit back with minimum emchanics
link sim? but ya its close because our gear isnt bis rn
the gap disappears when we get more ilvl
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pCWqFU7P52UFKpbDXYtYAg for me, both of your builds are 2% behind
link sim
idk why you think devs use sims to balance, they dont
well i can only go by what information is given
namely Izen
I would assume that the sims they use are the sim we had access to.
and PAD damage is huge for raids this season
its never been adds like we have this season.
so pad damage is what is making it seem like ret is some op spec in raids, as people point to the damage meter numbers
Now– I pug 100% everything I do–progressive to mplus– so damage meters is what pugs go by to judge us.
i mean if you want to see what metric theyt tune on
then you go to heroic 70% logs in warcraft logs, you look at boss damage for st or overal for general tuning.
1 Like