I'm pretty sure this settings operates on rule of cool/superhero/anime logic so everyone is strong.
It's never really established how the races stack up, although references to Worgen, Orc and especially Tauren strength are pretty common in lore.
Oh, and High/Blood Elves are canonically much stronger than humans. Hilariously.
Oh, and High/Blood Elves are canonically much stronger than humans. Hilariously.
11/13/2018 08:05 AMPosted by CarmageddonOh, and High/Blood Elves are canonically much stronger than humans. Hilariously.
How?
The reason that orcs are stronger in game is because, IIRC, tauren have a special stamina boost that orcs don't get. Tauren are both stronger and more resilient than orcs in lore. I guess Blizzard chose to represent their stamina first. Which, IMO, makes sense.
11/13/2018 08:38 AMPosted by Arlifrex11/13/2018 08:05 AMPosted by CarmageddonOh, and High/Blood Elves are canonically much stronger than humans. Hilariously.
How?
Iirc, it's something Alleria did in a novel. Picked up a ridiculously huge rock Turalyon couldn't, or some such (it's been a very long time since I read it).
If High Elves are that strong, then Night Elves must be at least as strong as their Troll progenitors.
11/13/2018 10:11 AMPosted by Galenorn11/13/2018 08:38 AMPosted by Arlifrex...
How?
Iirc, it's something Alleria did in a novel. Picked up a ridiculously huge rock Turalyon couldn't, or some such (it's been a very long time since I read it).
Yeah, I can't remember which novel but Turalyon is all "Whoa, no human could have even budged that thing!"
11/13/2018 10:23 AMPosted by NairdrixIf High Elves are that strong, then Night Elves must be at least as strong as their Troll progenitors.
I guess?
I mean, it makes logical sense, but this is WoW...
I just assume that everyone is as strong as the plot demands, but that there is a general spectrum with Tauren on one end and gnomes on the other.
11/13/2018 08:05 AMPosted by CarmageddonIt's never really established how the races stack up, although references to Worgen, Orc and especially Tauren strength are pretty common in lore.
Oh, and High/Blood Elves are canonically much stronger than humans. Hilariously.
Which is funny considering their night elf cousins are all about agility at the cost of strength. Probably why they were able to embarass grom so bad. Can't kill what you can't hit! Like that orc struggling to land a blow on the Night elf in the vanilla cinematic.
I can agree with the spectrum of strength idea, not everyone is created equal after all. Though it'd still be impossible for a human to be born as strong as an orc for example.
11/13/2018 10:32 AMPosted by TotemfiendI can agree with the spectrum of strength idea, not everyone is created equal after all. Though it'd still be impossible for a human to be born as strong as an orc for example.
Except Azeroth is both a world of magic and where 'rule of cool' rules above all petty notions of logic or sense. So there are circumstances where a member of a typically weaker race could be born far stronger than the strongest Tauren.
A good example of this would be the Dire Trolls.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Dire_troll
Tauren are probably very high in raw strenght. And so would worgen considering they are a druid form.
@Mustakraken: In all of WoW's time not a single dire troll has ever come from the Darkspear. This suggests that they are more unnatural than natural. Doubly so when so many of the one's we do see are empowered by some force or another.
Though even if they are natural that means they'd have to be more of a mutation than anything and as such wouldn't fit into the category of 'average troll strength'. And thusly wouldn't share the same spot on the 'spectrum' as regular trolls. They'd be their own category or sub-category. It'd be like fitting the extra big Kul tirans into the same category as the regular ones. Or tossing Worgen and Forsaken in with humans.
Though even if they are natural that means they'd have to be more of a mutation than anything and as such wouldn't fit into the category of 'average troll strength'. And thusly wouldn't share the same spot on the 'spectrum' as regular trolls. They'd be their own category or sub-category. It'd be like fitting the extra big Kul tirans into the same category as the regular ones. Or tossing Worgen and Forsaken in with humans.
11/13/2018 11:03 AMPosted by Totemfiend@Mustakraken: In all of WoW's time not a single dire troll has ever come from the Darkspear. This suggests that they are more unnatural than natural. Doubly so when so many of the one's we do see are empowered by some force or another.
The Darkspear are a small offshoot of the larger Gurubashi tribe, which do very much have Dire Trolls.
Having said that, note that I never said they were naturally occuring. The information we have on them speculates that they are altered magically or alchemically from birth, but they still very much are part of the world of warcraft.
Hence they serve as an example of how the assertion that a human could not be born as strong as an Orc is bunk.
Honestly the entire idea of there being some kind of hard and fast scale of strength for the races is ridiculous given how it seems to be class that determines strength.
11/13/2018 10:23 AMPosted by NairdrixIf High Elves are that strong, then Night Elves must be at least as strong as their Troll progenitors.
I think that's part of the intention, is that Night Elves are kind of the best of both worlds. The physical prowess of the Trolls, combined with the magical prowess of the High/Blood Elves (albeit with nature and divine magic, instead of arcane).
Actual presentation, on the other hand, is another matter entirely...
11/13/2018 11:24 AMPosted by Galenorn11/13/2018 10:23 AMPosted by NairdrixIf High Elves are that strong, then Night Elves must be at least as strong as their Troll progenitors.
I think that's part of the intention, is that Night Elves are kind of the best of both worlds. The physical prowess of the Trolls, combined with the magical prowess of the High/Blood Elves (albeit with nature and divine magic, instead of arcane).
Actual presentation, on the other hand, is another matter entirely...
Jack of all trades, master of none. You need to specialize!
But seriously, I think it just comes from the Tolkein/fantasy trope of elves being sort of übermensch. Which is a trope I really dislike.
11/13/2018 11:16 AMPosted by Mustakraken11/13/2018 11:03 AMPosted by Totemfiend@Mustakraken: In all of WoW's time not a single dire troll has ever come from the Darkspear. This suggests that they are more unnatural than natural. Doubly so when so many of the one's we do see are empowered by some force or another.
The Darkspear are a small offshoot of the larger Gurubashi tribe, which do very much have Dire Trolls.
Having said that, note that I never said they were naturally occuring. The information we have on them speculates that they are altered magically or alchemically from birth, but they still very much are part of the world of warcraft.
Hence they serve as an example of how the assertion that a human could not be born as strong as an Orc is bunk.
Honestly the entire idea of there being some kind of hard and fast scale of strength for the races is ridiculous given how it seems to be class that determines strength.
If they're altered alchemically or magically at birth that means they never could have been as strong as X other race via natural means. Which makes sense, Lions for example are never born as strong as the average tiger. At least not through normal means.
Yeah we’re lucky MU Baine is so calm, guys pretty scary when he’s mad.11/12/2018 09:31 PMPosted by Totemfiend11/12/2018 09:30 PMPosted by KisinGameplay =/= lore.
Orcs are definitely not as strong as tauren. Baine ripped Garrosh in half with his bare hands in an AU where he lost his temper.
huh, well that's grotesquely interesting.
I recall he even scared Sylvanas after he grabbed her arm and she realized just how physically powerful he was.
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"Elven supremacy is the only answer!" -Some Thalmor moments before obliteration11/13/2018 12:11 PMPosted by CarmageddonBut seriously, I think it just comes from the Tolkein/fantasy trope of elves being sort of übermensch. Which is a trope I really dislike.
That said I think we all know dwarves are the strongest. See, tauren are actually the strongest, but dwarves get to overpower them because they have a natural affinity for fighting giants because comedy.
11/13/2018 10:32 AMPosted by TotemfiendWhich is funny considering their night elf cousins are all about agility at the cost of strength. Probably why they were able to embarass grom so bad. Can't kill what you can't hit! Like that orc struggling to land a blow on the Night elf in the vanilla cinematic.
You know how hard it is to shoot a bow? That stuff requires real strength.
11/13/2018 11:24 AMPosted by GalenornI think that's part of the intention, is that Night Elves are kind of the best of both worlds. The physical prowess of the Trolls, combined with the magical prowess of the High/Blood Elves (albeit with nature and divine magic, instead of arcane).
Actual presentation, on the other hand, is another matter entirely...
Not quite, Night Elves lack the 2 main things that make trolls physical monsters, thier long limbs and regeneration. A troll will Outrange a night elf, can weild bigger bows and longer spears, and fight longer, but are less magicly gifted. Night Elves also lack heavy armor the other elves wear, at least on a large enough scale to equip troops with them. Night Elves were never intended to be the best of both worlds, they were intended to excel at their niche, and be decent at other things, like basically every other race in the game, with some glaring issues. They struggle when fighting a numerically superior foe, or when forced out of the forest. It's why the War of the Shifting Sands was extremely devastating to them.
I'd love to see some official WoW material for 5e D&D, including both NPC stat blocks to give us a sense of actual ability range, and PC creation rules that do backflips to try to squish everything down to fit within a +0, +1 or +2 bonus.