That position though is not scientific. A quote I gave to my super scientific friend irl… the moment that demons or Angel’s make themselves known, they would then fall under the purview of science. He was forced to agree. The moment you can observe the Light, interact with it, and use it, then you can science it. To do otherwise would be like anti-vaxxers trying to use science to say vaccinations are bad. That’s a perversion of science, just like your argument.
The first part of your argument is perhaps correct. However your logical leap to something-something-antivaxxer was pretty forced and disingenuous. There is no correlation between your two statements.
I’m gonna just go ahead and assume it sounded better in your head.
How about we reverse this and just delete the class instead?
It totally did. Ha
That said, there was another post that I broke down the SCIENCE of the Light in way more detail, in a post arguing for Goblin/Gnome Paladins. You would be surprised just how well one can quantify the Light in a scientific manner, and doing so would in fact lead to a far better understanding of it than what is currently known. Anybody that says you can’t embrace the Light because you’re to sciencey or whatever is making an argument that really does not make a lick of sense.
Ok, I’m game for a good theoretical discussion! Can you link to your scientific dissertation on the science of Light?
Not being snarky here, I’ll admit that there definitely could be a scientific basis for channeling the Light.
But I warn you, one mention of Midi-chlorians and I’m outta here!
Vulpera Paladins!
Vulpera Paladins! FUR THE LIGHT!
Oh don’t worry, that midi-chlorian thing pissed me off to! Let me find that post… it was a while back. Please hold, your request is very important to me… maybe.
And heeeere we are.
No midi-chorlians here! Just good ole observable SCIENCE.
No and let me say it in Spanish JIC NO.
Mag’har orcs should definitely have paladins
First, I’m now out of Hearts for the evening so I asked Shortround to spread some extra love.
Now for the meat and potatoes. You definitely make some good points on the Light as an energy source and even a form of life. I had forgotten the Naaru were beings of pure light.
The only portion of your statements that I take any issue with is the last one. Pondering the fact that light can be manipulated by machines (id est, energy beams of death) makes me think that there is a difference between light and Light. I cannot believe that every ray of visible daylight or the emission from a handheld blaster is the same sentient Light that our beloved Paladins call upon.
That issue aside (and maybe it’s just pure semantics to be discussed another day), I have no problem stating that with sufficient understanding and levels of technology, Mechagnomes could quite likely wield the Light.
That being said, I’ve heard that a Paladin maintains their power and connection to the Light as long as they believe their actions are just and right. That implies that the Light is either sentient (and fickle!) or the conduit itself is flawed. I wonder if it comes from the way the Paladin is trained…
Well anyway thanks for the discussion, Bipzi. I’ll edit my first post. 
Ah yes, more Human players. Just what the Alliance needs.
Awwww, thank you then to you both!
I’ll just keep this short since it sorta sounds like you are ending this for the night. I would say I would normally agree with you, but the Draenei and Naaru themselves don’t seem to make that distinction anywhere in the lore, and to be frank, I would consider the Draenei and the Naaru to be pretty much THE AUTHORITY on the Light due to being uplifted by the Naaru, and the Naaru being as aspect of the Light itself. That explanation doesn’t really hold up to scientific scruitiny I know, but there hasn’t been any lore introduced that seperates the light and Light as you say either sooooo shrugs
Fun fact, Priests have the same condition. All users of the Light must believe their actions are right. It’s one of those requirements that I mentioned from a scientific standpoint, I just didn’t say what the requirements themselves where.
I don’t have record of it atm, but it’s been implied the Light is actually semi-sentient, but not fully sentient. Thus it has the “right” barometer as a requirement for usage. I def agree the requirement is indeed flawed, one only needs to look at the Scarlet Crusade as an example, but at the end of the day, it really drives home the fact the SC felt what they were doing was the right thing to do. We are all heroes of our own stories.
You are most welcome sir!
That’s actually pretty interesting. If there is no difference, it then makes me wonder if visible daylight just a less concentrated form of the semi-sentient Light?
It’s also interesting that a power source could be semi-sentient. That almost sounds like something that’s more machine in nature than living, kind of like the difference between a virus cell vs bacteria.
Hmm. I could generate a good old fashioned migraine if I go too deep down the rabbit hole.
Thanks for the consideration and kind words, Bipzi ![]()
Nooooow you are catching on.
The aspect of creation being more machine in nature than religious is actually a somewhat explored trope, and to be frank I think can make a lot of sense. Whether the WoW writers realize they are going down that path or not is anybodies guess though.
I disagree with most of your selection.
Paladins are not simply zealous warriors who can wield holy magic. There’s more to their lore than that.
There is an RPG element at play here regarding Knighthood and Paladins as exemplars of that and then gaining holy power as a result. In-game lore for the Knights of the Silverhand adds a layer of crosstraining (Knights training Priests how to fight, Priests training Knights in how to channel holy magic), but otherwise the fantasy is intact.
For many of the selections you present, that element of Knighthood is simply not present in their culture. Just because they have WARRIORS does not mean they fit the archetype of a Knight. Knights are Warriors but not all Warriors are Knights.
Just because they have Priests, doesn’t mean it makes sense for them to channel the light in the manner Paladins do as these Divinely empowered Champions.
Whenever you allow for one of these races who don’t have that in their culture to be one, you dilute what it means to be a Paladin. You’re not expanding anything, you’re making it meaningless.
Having the class itself and the idea of said class have meaning is a key RPG element.
Just saying ‘well what if this particular individual was the one different one (the Drizzt defense)…’ has simply been used as a gateway to ultimately diluting the these elements ingame. So far, there’s no way to represent them as said different individuals in-game due to the limitations of the game as Themepark rather than Sandbox, so by allowing the ‘exceptions’ in, you allow ALL of them in, and that dilutes the class.
That being said, the races I am okay with being Paladins in your list:
Night Elves (via Elune)
Kul’Tiran (kinda wondering why they weren’t allowed to be in the first place really)
Undead (if lightforged like Calia)
Troll (in the same vein as a Paladin-equivalent like Zandalari Prelates / Freethinkers)
Highmountain (if they are taught by the Sunwalker tribe and join up…then they’d be Paladin equivalents).
Variety for the sake of variety is not necessarily a good thing. It can take away from this game as an RPG.
Whether or not that matters is up to each individual, of course, but perhaps my argument above shows why some people are against it.
I love this angle for arguing against something. Gotta keep that “purity” going, can’t let others learn or start to adapt a culture. Gotta keep it to yourself to keep yourself “pure”.
That purity angle has been used throughout history to spread bigotry and hate, and to try and keep people on a special pedestal over what they see as inferior people. I’m sorry but, the “purity” angle has always been bad, and you don’t make it any better.
People learn, people grow, and people co-mingle. We are in a world that is constantly being hit by all sides in world ending disaster, but here we have somebody worried about “purity” instead of helping people to embrace the Light and help save the universe. Awesome.
Never enough ;).
I need more human recruits for the rebellion we’re planning.
Excuse me. Don’t forget about Worgen Shaman.