Ok.
People say we’re not garbage talking about PvP.
Ret is very ok only in two comps:
Cupid (off heal, cc chain, utilities). In 95% situation Ret is target #1. You know how everything will be going on. Hunt is handle with all RDPS classes very well removing one of the most annoying Ret weakness - mobility.
Ret + DH/Rogue+ (sham, priest, dru) because DH and Rogies are overwhelming OP
Ret ok with Prot in 2v2. As well if you handle Prot you can play with war, rogue, DH.
In all of the rest content Ret suck so much:
RBGs, rBGS, wPVP, M Uldir, M+
I retired my ret and decided to play hunter instead which pumps out better dps at a lower ilvl. Also to put into perspective, my shaman at equal ilvl with my ret pumped out better dps, and everyone #$%@s on shaman dps. The only good spec from paladins is prot since its so simple. Theres something wrong with a spec when you can make a sandwich in the middle of your rotation.
Playing up to 2k I was mostly base sitting or playing D on flag maps. Due to not having good AE my numbers were crap when compared to boomkins/rogues(this was when FoK was still op.) I also had some terrible Az traits at the time and didn’t know that Rets were trip stacking Av might.
If it were up to me I would have been in bigger fights where we could burst down players and help via the utility this class has
I’ve gone holy since but kinda stopped at 2100, was sorta stuck in that crap ladder and never pushed out
We aren’t in a good spot in raiding and even worse for mythic +
The issues we have are quite simple. Our strength is not enough of a strength to outweigh our weakenesses. Our supposed strength is supposed to be Single Target(ST) damage. The issue is we do middle of the pack ST dps in a standstill patchwerk style fight. The problem is Uldir has no standstill ST bosses. Even bosses that are close have movement conditions that incur a massive dps loss for Ret as we have incredibly low mobility. Combine this with 0 inherent 2-target cleave (ie abilities that are specifically designed around being +dps when fighting two targets) means that we fall behind on many fights. Then another flaw is that our burst aoe can be good provided Wake of Ashes is up, if that is not the case we do not output good AoE and our AoE falls off rapidly regardless. Combine the fact that our raid utility is not very effective or it incurs dps loss means we are not a very good inclusion to a raid.
To better visualize
Pros:
Middle of the pack ST damage
Strongish defensives
As for PvP we are entirely based around mastery and just burst kill setups. Sure its viable but it is not a fun PvP experience as you are entirely based around a 2 minute cooldown and a pvp talent. This isn’t even the intended design but rather the way Rets have found to be effective. I don’t personally like it but hey maybe you do.
Some people loves to be in the last spot in DPS charts. Or throwing a LoH every 10 minutes as a utility role.
The rest of us, who want to be more competitive, want a real balance and fix.
Please look at our class, remove the minus damage aura that you bring in pre-patch at least.
I would agree with the op,. I’m 2/8M and simming at around 18k dps. Rotation is simple but leaves room to improve. The fact that people won’t take paladins is a rubbish argument. If people turn you down, in m+ for example, just look for more grps. Casually I hit almost 1k io doing pugs. It is doable. Just need to stay at it.
So, let’s take PVP out of the mix shall we? Since most of the Retribution paladins that are making complaints are raiders.
Retribution feels a lot worse in some aspects compared to Legion & better in others. I do believe Blizzard should make “Hammer of Wrath” base line once more, before Legion it was already base line for them to bring it back but make it in to a talent is nonsense.
A lot of retribution paladins in the class discord would also like to see Crusade return to being the best talent, I however disagree with this as it didn’t really do anything & was kinda meh, however if you’re low haste you will often see a large drop in your “Inquisition” Up-time so I do see where they’re coming from.
When you enter 5/8M or later progressed in to mythic Uldir you will find that your raid spot is taken by rogues, warriors, frost death knights & even Demon Hunters. Simply because we as Rets do not offer enough AOE to be brought anymore.
A fix for this BLIZZARD is by re-instating the glory for two of our Ashbringer traits.
“Divine Tempest” & “Judge Unworthy” would make Ret paladin do enough damage AOE & single target wise to the point we would be away from the bottom of the pack & be more around the middle or even top if played properly.
As Durandal said, we aren’t in a good spot in mythic plus or raids. I’m 382 I pull purple & legendary parses but still I’m losing my raid spot to warriors/rogues/Death knights/Demon Hunters who are 360-375 because their class just preforms better.
Sustained single target DPS on a Patchwerk style parse is middle of the pack, which is alright; however, this doesn’t take into account movement (which can heavily affect paladins) or 2-3+ add cleave which the current iteration of this spec currently performs very poorly with.
The spec feels clunky to play even when you’re able to use HoW during execution phases. At higher gear levels with 2,000+ haste rating (including bonus from reorrigination array) and heroism there are times when I still find myself waiting a for abilities to come off CD. This is okay to an extent during these periods, but really becomes apparent when you’re not haste capped from heroism/in execution range and you’re occasionally waiting 2-4 seconds to press an ability.
Regarding PvP, Ret is C tier at best. Our damage outside of CDs is poor with most of our damage occuring during burst windows with wings up (why you see most paladins stacking 3xAvenger’s Might); however, Ret has arguably the worse mobility in the game which means not only are you unlikely to connect during these burst windows, but you’re also unlikely to connect in general (playing against a mage is laughable). There is utility with BoP, BoS and WoG, but it hardly makes up for your inability to reach/stick to a target in arena; you might as well play a Holy Paladin at that point. I won’t mention RBGs as the meta is cleave and mobility heavy and paladins of all specs aren’t desired.
Plain and simple there needs to be a buff to mobility and cleave, and with that a shift in damage away from burst windows to compensate in PvP while not adversely affecting PvE DPS. This could easily be done by modifying CD/proc chance on judgement/crusader strike/blade of wrath/art of war (which would also make the spec feel less clunky) while simultaneously nerfing Avenging Wrath slightly to compensate. And mobility can easily be fixed with the reintroduction of long arm of the law/emancipate.
Watching buttons while waiting for a cd to use an ability.
Respawning in PvP because you just got owned by a mage because you cant get into melee range.
Ret doesn’t really have a playstyle unless getting owned in pvp is a playstyle.
I’ve seen a lot of complaints of rets boring play style, lack of aoe and mobility. A lot of hate on divine steed. I must say I agree, ret is pretty boring.