Question about Azeorth, Elune and the Winter Queen

Lore Story Forum
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This is hypothetically speaking, this is not intended to be spoilers.

Continue reading at your own risk, I guess?

So now that it has been confirmed that the Winter Queen is the sister of Elune…

Does that confirm that the Winter Queen is Lo’Sho?

In tauren mythology, Lo’sho is the “blue child” the younger sibling of Mu’sha and An’she.

Mu’sha is confirmed to be Elune.

And well… to put it bluntly, the Winter Queen is… blue.

She comes off as the younger sibling of Mu’sha and is angered that she was not there to protect her.

Now, if this is true about Mu’sha being Elune, and Lo’sho being the Winter Queen.

Does that then mean that Azeroth is confirmed to be a First One, the Earthmother?

Zovaal requires the Sepulcher of the First Ones, the Tomb of the First Ones, in order to siphon Azeroth’s (who is a first one) power when he ultimately kills her…

(Not to say he’s going to kill her, but that’s why he is in this precise location, so that when she does die, he has direct access to that First One power)

Now, with that, where does that leave An’she who is presumably a Light Titan, and how does that interact with Zovaal and Death?

(Taking into consideration that it was the Light who helped defeat Arthas, was present with Anduin, etc…)

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Elune is not literally the White Lady, rather that Elune’s power can probably be channeled through any moon, as multiple planets worship her, and we were able to use her power on Draenor through a rock from one of its moons there, too.

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I don’t think there’s a connection. It’s just actually a myth story based on the tauren’s own observations.

Thing is Elune has been around to many other planets too. The Winter Queen also pre-dates Azeroth, she has been around for a very very long time. Long before the tauren ever existed. And also the Winter Queen and night fae have never even heard of Azeroth until we arrived to tell them our story. She’s not on the other moon.

That tauren story does not fit with the actual facts. There are hints of truth in it, in that they actually are sisters, but it’s really just a cultural heavily biased fairytale. Which is what that book was about to begin with.’

An’she so far has no proof of existing as an actual being. It’s just how they view the sun as a god. Light powers are gained from faith and conviction in a “light source” which all reaches back to the Light realm. The tauren believe in and revere An’she as the world’s light and the greater Light responds, but the details of the actual belief does not matter.

Azeroth is also a titan 100%. Everything we’ve ever seen declares her to be a titan. First Ones are different things. Zovaal is using her specifically as an energy battery because titans are incredibly powerful arcane beings.

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Zovaal’s datamined corpse after being defeated is a Robot and the Raid Journal for Sepulcher of the First Ones states that the Eternal Ones were bonded to Robot Bodies.

I suspect the First Ones were just a group of desperate survivors binding aspects(fragments the faintest of echoes in Xal’atath’s words) of their 7 Gods to Robot Bodies in hopes of surviving:

  1. The Earthmother
  2. The Black Goat with 7 Eyes Mu’sha(notice the word “Sha”) Goddess of Night, Light, Life and Tides
  3. An’she the Sun God
  4. Lo’sho
  5. The Drowned God of Shadow, Death and Blood
  6. The God of the Deep
  7. The Blue Child, God of Sleep(daughter of Mu’sha and the Drowned God)

The Broker writer Al’firim(now just Firim) claimed that the 7th Force might be part of the Pattern and that the 7 Forces are fighting over Reality out of fear of another unknown Force.

The Everliving Statuette claims:

The seventh covets what the six hold fast. The fulcrum wavers. All will be undone.

Is the seventh the same 7th(which is Sleep) that Firim was talking about or is it the unknown force he was talking about.

THE END OF ALL THINGS

The crooked serpent with no eyes is watching from the endless sky.

Forked tongues flicker through the black pits in dead stars.

The veil between dream and dreamer slides away like skin from bone.

And even the darkness howls for the light it once despised.

<The rest of the note is illegible, covered in strange glyphs and scribbles.>

The Devourer of Gods is coming… No wonder the Light(Mu’sha) has struck a bargain with the enemy of all(the Drowned God)!

Of course Mu’sha’s idea of victory is grabbing the Worthy, purging the Unworthy and making a run for it. The Drowned God’s idea of victory is to kill everyone to release his limbs then make a run for it. Mu’sha thinks that siding with the Drowned God will work in her favor despite the fact that the guy is a backstabber.

An’she probably also wants to purge the Unworthy before running off yet unlike Mu’sha won’t work with his old enemies.

The God of the Deep doesn’t want the omnicidal maniac who seeks the end of all possibilities to win so he wants those dedicated to Light disposed of while he prepares to run off with all living things taking the Black Empire with him as he escapes and makes a run for it before the Crooked Serpent shows up!

Lo’sho’s idea of seeking victory is unknown.

As for the Blue Child: Xal’atath’s calling the Naaru beloved brethren might indicate that Xal’atath is an Avatar of the Blue Child though doesn’t say what her idea of victory is though the fact she mentions the victory of one’s betters may or may not indicate outright surrender and causing Chaos(she loves Madness and disappears whenever it’s inconvenient like with the Dark Iron Queen in Grim Batol) while awaiting the end.

What the Crooked Serpent’s goal would be is unknown though provided he doesn’t get Raided by the end of the Expansion after the next one he might just eat the Gods and leave.

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But was this made possible because it was us? With our ties to Azeroth?

I guess I was more asking if the Tauren now recognized the Winter Queen as Lo’Sho?

For example, you’re a Tauren Druid aiding the Shadowlands, you come to Ardenweald and realize this is “your Lo’Sho,” the Blue Child your mythology speaks of.

Does Baine acknowledge the Winter Queen as Lo’sho at all? Or have any dialogue referencing her?

I assume that Azeroth is a first one, because of a few things now:

  1. We can interact with a relic of the First Ones, because our tie to the Heart of Azeroth… because well because she’s a first one. (Otherwise any Titan follower could interact with them, right?)
  1. The Sepulcher of the First Ones is basically the Tomb of the First Ones, if Azeroth were a first one and she died, this is where her essence would ultimately go.
  1. The Old Gods stating “She’s not the last, but the first.”
    • She’s not the last Titan, but a First One.
  1. The Tauren Mythology story holding some truth.

We often believe that there were 4 First Ones because the symbols within the cosmic map… but what if there were 6? (7?)

6 First Ones all giving a part of themselves to form a spirit or “world soul” for each cosmic force. One that would house itself within a vessel, whether that vessel be stone, mechanic, flesh, etc doesn’t really matter, as it’s merely a shell.

Azeroth - A First One

  • Children
    • Elune - Life
    • Winter Queen - Death
    • An’she - Light
    • Eonar - Order
    • _______ - Chaos
    • _______ - Void
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  1. No, but any actual titan (or Eternal One/other planar equivalent) might. After all, the Primus had to have gotten to Korthia and then the Maw undetected somehow, and those are the only two realms that are shown to contain Waystones. The thing is, since he got his power back Zovaal’s apparently able to access and utilize First One tech in Zereth Mortis as well. Even though the Waystone in the Maw was inaccessible to him while he was still “lessened” by much of his power inhabiting the Arbiter. Which suggests that rather than Azeroth being a First One, the cosmic pantheons may all be able to activate and use First One devices when not deliberately diminished and contained and our close connection to Azeroth’s world-soul likely imparts some measure of that ability to us.
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Those are really great points, OP! The Tauren mythological connection fits so well with what we’ve learned. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if you ended up being right on the money with your First One theory, and I’m finding myself super curious about An’she now too. Thanks for the food for thought :slight_smile:

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The Legion had invaded Maldraxxus, the Light had invaded Revendreath, KT had invaded Bastion, Drealords can come and go as they please, etc…

None of these needed super high levels of connection to an eternal to do so.

Zovaal + all sigils + Domination Magic meant that he had the power to control the creatures within Zereth Mortis to do his own bidding.

He’s not really utilizing the tech so much as forcing the machines inside to do it for him.

The waystone had no bound on Zovaal, as he took a portal out of his Sanctum to Orbios (in the raid).

What bound him was the magic infused within the Heart of the Forest and the Ardenweald Sigil.

The fact that she gave us mortals the power to escape the Maw, more likely suggests she’s a first one to me.

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Which is why I will admit that him expanding the maw around Oribos was clever. He can’t leave the maw. So why not bring Oribos to the maw? Just in a different way. Using the anima that Denathrius donated.

Once he got his sigil back, he was now free as he was too powerful for the heart of the forest to contain him.

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And none of those places is Korthia or the Maw.

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But that would not really make sense, because they aren’t any realms of special importance “tucked away” within the fabric of the Shadowlands.

Korthia, to the best of my knowledge, wasn’t contained anywhere “beyond the Shadowlands.” It was simply a shattered realm (ruins) floating in the “in-between.” (The In-Between in the Shadowlands, to me, is just “deep space.”)

Even Sylvanas and her Valkyrie could enter and leave the Maw…

The waystones were inactive, even when the Primus was in the Maw, even when Zovaal was in the Maw.

Our Heart of Azeroth, our connection to Azeorth, the First One, triggered that waystone, and eventually the waystone in Korthia, to activate.

What I wanna know is:

  1. Is Elune accepted by the Tauren to be Mu’sha? Do they agree with the Night Elves?
    • You call her Elune, we call her Mu’sha…
  1. If yes, then would a Tauren Druid/Paladin in Ardenweald make the connection that Elune is Mu’sha, and her sister is the Winter Queen… ultimately Lo’sho.
  1. If yes, then would they not ask or question where is An’she? (Tauren Paladin specifically)
  1. If all the above is true, would this not lead to a Tauren asking the Winter Queen, who Azeroth is to her?
  1. If none of this is true, and the Winter Queen says “Sorry baby cow, I knew not of this Azeorth until you came through the portal…”
    • Wouldn’t that shatter Tauren Mythology?
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Not really. They say that that Elune’s power is like Mu’sha not is Mu’sha.

Aponi Brightmane says: Talk to me, Tahu. Something. Anything! I’m going stir-crazy.
Tahu Sagewind laughs softly
Tahu Sagewind says: All right, Aponi. I’ve enough on my mind to share. Have you ever spoken to the elves of Moonglade?
Aponi Brightmane says: Not much.
Tahu Sagewind says: The elves speak of a moon goddess, did you know? They put great stock in the light given by the moon.
> Aponi Brightmane says: Like Mu’sha.
> Tahu Sagewind says: Just like her. The parallels I’ve heard are interesting. And it’s no secret all druids, Shu’halo and elf alike, can call upon Mu’sha’s light.
> Aponi Brightmane says: Where are you going with this?
> Tahu Sagewind says: I wonder. Hamuul has guided us well, and I’ve learned so much from. The legends say that our people were druids when time began…
> Aponi Brightmane says: I hear the “but” in your voice…
> Tahu Sagewind says: …but what Hamuul teaches is what the elves know. The night elves. They put such stock in their moon goddess, as creatures of the night.
> Aponi Brightmane says: Do you think his teachings are wrong?
> Tahu Sagewind says: No! No, nothing like that. He is an elder for good reason, sister. Mu’sha is one of the Earthmother’s eyes, and she watches over us. That isn’t sinister.
Tahu Sagewind says: But we’re nothing if not people who strive for balance. Our warriors fight only when there is need. Our hunters take only what the tribes require to live, and use all they can when they do. The shaman stand as guide and mediator to the elemental spirits.
Tahu Sagewind says: And while we, as druids, are guardians of nature, I wonder if we’ve overlooked a key aspect of balance in all things.
Aponi Brightmane says: So are you going to bring this up to the elder?
Tahu Sagewind says: No, no. No need for him to trouble about a student’s idle philosophizing while he entertains a friend.
Aponi Brightmane says: I suppose so. It’s not silly, though, what you said.
Tahu Sagewind says: Well, it isn’t exactly a new thought, sister.

For all we know both Elune and the Winter Queen are aspects of Mu’sha as is Xe’ra(and if the Sha in Mu’sha is a hint to anything Y’Shaarj is as well making Mu’sha the Black Goat).

Fun fact Sha’tar means “born of Light” Which is the word for Light? Sha!

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Given that the Tauren believe that Cenarius is the son of Mu’sha (the moon) and Malorne, the white stag and the Night Elves believe the same. It is safe to assume that Mu’sha to the Tauren is Elune.

We do have real life mythos’s where Gods of a similar nature were considered the “same” by different cultures. They just had different names. For example the Greek / Roman Gods.

Words can have different meanings to different people / cultures.

Sha to the Pandaren is not the same as the Eredar / naaru meaning of Sha.

I mean a thong in Australia is a type of footwear. A thong to Americans is well… ladies underwear. Or the Y shaped strap on “flip flops”.

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I dou nout understand why youu Australians wear ladies’ underwear oun youur feet and assume we wear flip floups as underwear.

Australians are weird.

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I don’t get that same feeling when I read this. It feels like Aponi is saying “its quite possible, Mu’sha and Elune may be the same.”

What implications does that have on the Tauren Mythology and their beliefs?

It’s kindof like you meeting your Goddess Mu’sha, and she saying she has no idea who the Earthmother is, or Lo’Sha or An’she.

That would really put a damper on your whole outlook of life…wouldn’t it? (Problem with meeting your gods I suppose)

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Azeroth is a Titan World Soul. Unless they retcon everything to make her a First One, I don’t see that happening.

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No. Lo’Sho and for that matter, Mu’Sha may be nothing more than names the Taurens gave to the two brightest objects in the night sky.

The only thing this meeting confirms is that Elune has a sibling who up to now was very cross with her.