The elite PvP set is essentially a sign that you have exited beginner PvP. I get almost half the elite sets on healers I barely know how to play every season. Just because I have the elite druid set doesn’t mean I’m not a terrible resto druid (I definitely am).
There’s no point in arguing with you if you can’t acknowledge you used a fallacy and switch to a non-fallacious argument. They are called fallacies because they are deflections and not arguments. Saying “yes, but” is more deflection. If you can’t understand that just because a group of people believe something doesn’t prove that something is true, then you’re no longer using logic to understand something, and debate becomes pointless. Trying to say that a fallacy is still applicable because of a conditional shows a lack of understanding of how logical deduction works.
My argument isn’t strictly a statistical one. It’s a deduction from basic facts. It’s not a matter of absolute truth. There is a spectrum of good and bad arguments, and that’s why there is room for us to have this conversation. I will not, however, engage with someone who can’t construct an argument without the deception of fallacies in order to cheat their way to victory.
Sometimes you can come off as coldly logical when explaining your points but never really rude per se. I think places like discussion forums are dominated mostly by popularity rather than true desire for logical discussion. People here unfortunately don’t want to feel like they’re being educated even if that isn’t your intent. They want to vent their frustrations and get pats on the back for it.
There was another poster literally cursing you in her post a speaking like a pig and she got likes for that. It’s pretty sad that people can’t just speak about ideas without that kind of disgusting behavior and popularity contest styled pack mentality. Extremely primitive mindset.
Want to remind everyone that you don’t have to hug it out, but don’t embarrass yourselves.
Sad that my holy priest from TBC Classic Anniversary is much more competent than my holy priest in Midnight.
In my 20 years of WoW, I’ve never once been expected to re-spec out of my healing spec to something else just to be able to quest or play solo, and I should in no way be expected to do the same now.
Atp I don’t care about Midnight in the least bit. I don’t care about the housing, which is a great feature, I don’t care about the story, the new raids, dungeons, etc. I don’t care about the new “Prop hunt” game mode coming or these new “Labyrinth” delves.
Because every single thing in this game revolves around rotations and combat. To be able to get the decor for that shiny new house, I need to quest or rep grind or pay for it in gold, but all of that would require combat of some kind, and the combat just feels absolutely awful.
This might actually be the worst classes have felt in the entirety of WoW, and yes, I’m including WoD and BFA when classes were at what we thought were the lowest of the low.
One thing another game that I love did was add a “Vigilance” passive buff to the Defenders, which are that games support archetype. And it basically gives them a 30% damage boost which is lowered by 10% for each party member present, and it also gives them a power pool discount based on missing health of their teammates. It was from City of Heroes and it was an “inherent” ability called Vigilance. I’d link to it, but I’m not allowed to.
It probably doesn’t fit the WoW playstyle, but maybe worth a look?
I’m still able to do world quests on my priest, but as a Holy Priest, I’ve gotten used to generally being slower than other classes. I didn’t check your other Holy Spec, but you might want a spec with the Mind Pierce talent (on the Priest side of the tree). It increases Smite damage by 15% and helps a lot. Right now, your attack rotation will basically be Chastise, Holy Fire, Smite Smite Smite Smite Smite… and then more Holy Fire and Chastise then lots of smite again.
I definitely want things to improve for Holy as well, and I love doing the world content as a class where I can instantly shift to helping other people nearby who are about to die, or are struggling with a mob… so I feel you!
It’s a conceptual thing, and for an MMO RPG, it shouldn’t be too surprising when people stick to a character concept that they prefer. Personally, I love angels, and I love Holy Priest because I feel closer to that concept when I play and Shadow is kinda the antithesis of that.
You don’t have to embrace it, but understanding it shouldn’t be out of reach.
No one is expecting this of you, and questing as a healer has always been a slog outside of a few patches where tuning was wack. The reality is that if you enjoy playing non-healer content with a tiny DPS toolkit that consists of spamming buttons without thought, then you’ve always been able to take the path of most resistance.
Yes it involves combat, but it’s an MMORG - most of that combat requires or allow you to have other people. I do delves with my friends all the time. As a healer getting people who want your services should be easy considering there’s been a healer and tank shortage for many expansions. If you want to heal then heal.
Like many things in life it’s using the right tool for the right job and if you want to use the wrong tool for the job at hand - and play a healer when you need to do damage - you can’t blame Blizzard or other players for suboptimal results.
I’ve been using Disc for this purpose. It’s not the style of play or spec I prefer, which is holy, but it does enough damage while questing and you will usually always be at near full health.
If you are playing disc you are just a step away from playing shadow which will be considerably better for questing than disc.
I can’t remember the last time I actually died while playing shadow with war mode off while questing. Shadow priest is still a priest. You have PW:S and flash heal with 10% damage reduc, DP, dispersion, and leech. On top of that, if you just wait for vamp brace to come up, you can cake walk through delves destroying packs while you stay at 100% health.
It IS a video game, you’re not supposed to be at 100% health all the time. A game where you can’t die is boring indeed, and it’s why I do hope they add a heroic world tier.
An RPG IMO implies a character with a narrative arc. Playing the other specs allows you to have a richer narrative arc for your character. Maybe you use shadow as a form of balance, or maybe it’s a necessary but dangerous weapon you uncomfortably use and steadily gain more mastery over. Maybe it’s against your will, and your character exhibits some sort of forced duality.
It’s interesting that there’s such a big pushback around losing SW:P when it is in fact a shadow spell. This seems to conflict with the desire to only play holy priest for the flavor when in fact the priest toolkit has always included a mix of both schools. Even anduin casts mind control at some point.
I’m not actually having trouble playing Holy for questing, I’m pressing smite way more than I would prefer, and I can’t handle the same large pulls of mobs quite as effectively as before, but I’m not really struggling.
That’s weird because nothing has changed about the healing toolkit that would stop you from doing big pulls. The first thing I did after seeing the forum complaints was go pull most of hallowfall and nova down 40 mobs. It’s just spam nova, chastise, holy fire, holy fire, spam nova, repeated ad infinitum. If you get in trouble you can drop a fade clone so often there’s 0 risk of death.
If you are trying to smite down stuff one by one I can see why you might think the toolkit is bad. You’re definitely not going to do well without pulling large packs, but you’re a healer.
EDIT:
I just noticed that you have 144 ilvl gear on, but no raids, no dungeons, no PvP, are you just running quests as a healer? Is there a reason you’re not doing group content?
I can blame Blizzard when literally 2 weeks ago I had a better kit for questing and solo play, and now I do not.
Two weeks ago I had a shield with a talent that reflected damage back to the target, a DoT, a pet CD, holy nova that was actually useful without incurring a 30 second CD, a lightwell to heal me in delves when I get low, and Divine Word that made Chastise do more damage and refund 15 seconds of it’s cooldown.
Now I have none of that.
So yes, this is very much Blizzards fault and is a direct result of their actual garbage class design this expansion.
For reference, Holy priest is the only healer that really struggles in combat to this degree. MW’s whole rotation is literally about doing DPS to heal, same with Disc if you go big into atonement. Druids can literally get moonkin form and a host of balance spells or they can get a whole host of feral abilities. Holy Paladin’s like main healing ability is also an instant cast damage ability, and they just got Crusader Strike back, plus they have SoTR, and again, also has a build focused around damage to heal. Resto shaman has it’s shocks and chain lightning, and literally a proc to insta cast lava burst, and Pvoker still has their damage spells and a whole host of utility.
Do you see the issue? Holy priest has none of the same toys that other healing specs have. We get to spam smite and holy fire on CD.
Why do all the other healing specs get to dip into tools from the rest of their class and Holy priest is almost exclusively holy spells?
Priest really needs a Light Themed DPS spec. Really hoping that survey that went out is then really considering 4th specs. Maybe we will see Paladin class expanded to other races and a 4th spec for Priest “Inquisition” or something.
I just really want to hurl radiant holyfire bolts and smite enemies with Light magic. Being able to solo as a light wielder dps spec and then switch to Holy for group play would be peak for me.
Yup. Holy and priest design in general is just needlessly antiquated. Somehow a few specs are loaded with strong utilities and proper, modern design…and other are stuck in the stone age for no logical reason. Really sucks when you love a class/spec conceptually.
They have judgement, offensive holy shock, and a melee DPS ability they only get when they press their biggest healing cooldown. So basically 2 abilities none of which are spammable.
Holy priest has smite, chastise, nova, holy fire, shadow word: death, none of which are tied into Apotheosis or another big healing CD.
You failed to mention shaman, which has flame shock (has a CD), meatball, and a ST and multi-target lightning bolt.
Disc has penance, mb, smite, sw:p, sw:d.
Monk has RSK, TP, BK, aoe kick, and crackle. So just to break that down for you:
So yeah this narrative you are spinning is factually false. You are on the upper end of DPS ability count and still complaint you don’t have more, even though you’re playing the intro healer… I mean how unfair would that be to the other healers and make no sense for the holy powered reactive healer to have a huge shadow DPS kit.
It’s almost like you’re a holy priest. But just in case you forgot mind control is a shadow spell, scream is a shadow spell, and so is shadow word: death. You’re fine.
Also factually false. Holy priest has basically turned into an all instant cast smart healing bot with a route skip, one of the strongest offensive healer CDs in the game, a multi-target dispel, several speed boosts including passively increasing the speed of the party with their most pressed button, a stun that you can interrupt with (I should make a thread about how disc is antiquated and needs chastise tbf), and one ability that:
Loses thread
Gets you out of snares
Acts as an aggro totem
Did I mention you are one of two healers that can purge off buffs including giant DPS CDs in PvP and shields and engrage effects in PvP.
BUT WAIT THERES MORE
Did I also mention you can literally pull people out of the bad, which is 90% of modern wow design, and help people with route skips who don’t know how to jump over small walls
Let’s not forget we can also MC people which has literally had a bug that can DC people for many years, making it objectively the best PvP button in the game.
But we also forgot to say we can jump off tall building and float down to blacksmith like an angel descending to smite the wicked and evil doers that forums posters that complain about holy priest.
Yes holy should have more ability to quest and solo content. It’s time to open the box a bit. Give us some choice nodes to increase our damage at the cost of healing. It’s really not that hard.
I’m just going to keep posting the data until the people who keep making up false narratives accept the objective truth that Holy is still on the high end for ability count and damage abilities compared to the other healers.
I also had my manafiend glyphed to look like a Lightspawn.
