How many disc priests have you seen in these last few arena toruneys? How many holy pallys? Ill help you out, None. They are not viable at the highest level right now. You bring up viability, well then sure everything is viable. Jelly beans played mm hunter so its viable right?
Its not fun starting a game down by two touchdowns.
You prolly see 3 resto druids for every mw/rsham.
Even rubcub argueably the worlds best holy pally decided to run rmd/ ww/destro/rdruid over rmpally.
The numbers he posted list 11 Rdruids above Disc priests tho, so your point is Chewbacca is a wookie that lives on Endor…
Not on tournaments where everybody will play whatever is the strongest comp/class as they are competing for money, that doesn’t change the fact that, there are disc Priests playing at the highest level on live, which means that, they may not be in their ideal shape, of course , but still viable
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think we ever had all healing specs evenly represented in a single tournament, which doesn’t mean that those specs weren’t viable, they are just not the very best on that meta.
Maybe I’m lost into translation or something because english is my 3rd language, but from what I understand, a given spec don’t need to be the strongest to be viable.
Wild example to illustrate what I’m trying to say: WW monks are, arguably, the strongest melee DPS spec atm, this doesn’t mean that sin rogues are not viable specs…
Regardless of what the numbers say, it simply isn’t fun playing disc or holy pally. They are the two healers that can be focused down by a single DPS with moderate dampening and go down. The other 3 healers have so much more survivability it isn’t even funny, which is odd because they also have insane mobility, which both the priest and paladin lack.
i need a beer, bye
Imagine thinking hunters are fine
imagine thinking this meta isn’t terrible
imagine being paid to put such little effort into PVP
So MM hunters have 0.5%representation above 2200. Not the best but they are viable right?
So what you are sayig is that we should be ok with this because they are viable right? Forget the fun factor or how mechanics feel? Thats what you’re saying.
What you are failig to realize is that a class like disc priest is only viable because of rogue mage. Not because the spec itsself is actually good, but because two classes are actually carrying a class/spec.
WW monks are, arguably, the strongest melee DPS spec atm, this doesn’t mean that sin rogues are not viable specs…
Are you seriously comparing Sin/WW and Disc/Rdruid?
???
I wouldn’t even try to talk to him, to be honest. His posts show he has no clue what he’s talking about and is basing everything off of raw data and not taking game play into account. Everyone with a clue, including those highest level arena players, know discipline is complete trash and needs help desperately.
Excellent. Druids already no longer top healer. Better nerf us. Are you guys watching arena at all? There are multiple healers that are par. The difference being Druids need to drink to have comparable longevity to other healers. Now you nerf the single talent that we are supposed to grab every game. We are left with one OK talent, and a bunch of lack luster talents.
where r the rest of the hotfixes. this should only be 1/10th of what should have happened
Nailed it. I do hope they can really consider this spot on feedback. This pacing problem is what has drawn me to playing in lower level BG brackets; its much better pacing despite the twinking and major class imbalances.
It doesn’t really matter if we are filtering the numbers by rating (which I did). Above 2k rating there are 152 resto druids and 148 disc priests, which statistically is the same representation (5.8% and 5.7% of total players above this rating). So, the numbers of Disc Priests and Resto Druids are basically the same, hence, both specs capable and viable to achieve this rating. That was my point and I used that raw data to back it up.
“Fun” doesn’t affect viability. Being viable has absolutely nothing to do with “fun”. Example: towards the end of S1, before the buffs, Resto Druids were viable on dampening comps (mainly SP/Mage/Ele+Lock), is it fun to play damp comps? Of course not, I personally don’t like to PVE heal for 20 minutes to win a match, but not being fun doesn’t mean it’s not viable.
Actually there’s only 1 MM hunter above 2.2k and no, I don’t think MM is a viable spec for high rated matches. Also, I would like to stress that you are using an extreme example to justify/backup your argument, which is, of course, a well know fallacy.
My argument is around the fact that there are 152 resto druids and 148 disc priests above 2k rating, hence, both specs are viable to achieve those ratings. (may not be fun or easy, but still possible/viable)
Fun factor and play style mechanics doesn’t really have a correlation with viability. Some classes are harder than others to master or even play, some are boring while others are fun, but doesn’t mean they are not viable to a certain degree. Viability is the focus of this conversation ![:slight_smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
RMP is around since Burning Crusade and RM always “carried” the healer because this is how this comp works… that was a bad example. No wonder why RMx is always a viable comp with different healers (including the crappy version of RDruids from BfA S1). Our good and humble friend Dilly plays, as far as I know, Jungle with a Disc Priest and they are on the very top of the ladder, aren’t they? Another viable comp (may be hard than it should because Priests are not in a good shape, but still … viable).
No, please read my post again.
In none of my posts you will see me saying that Disc Priests don’t need love. On the other hand, you will see several posts with me saying that all the other healers should be brought to Resto Druid levels, so everybody can play their classes/specs sharing the same playing field. And I’m all in for any changes that bring all healers to the same level.
Also, viability is an open concept if we don’t draw a line around it to define the scope of the discussion, for example:
Currently…
Is Disc viable to complete and win the Tourney based on the meta? Nope, I don’t think so.
Is Disc a viable spec to get Gladiator? Sure it is.
Is Disc a viable spec to get R1? Yes, it is.
In short, depending in how you scope the discussion, you can have different conclusions around the same subject.
But it does matter if you’re only pulling specific 2k+ data. If there are 10x more disc priests playing but they are under performing that’s a problem. With out that type of data your numbers don’t mean anything. You can’t say something is viable if hypothetically .001% of the priest population is attaining something whereas 1% of the druid population is.
No, you missed the point again, disc as a spec is not viable. Its being carried by rogue/mage. Rogue/mage is a disproportionately strong dps duo, therefore able to carry a much weaker spec such as disc priest.
Here is my point, while running RMP, Disc cannot keep itsself up, it cannot kite, its not tanky, it solely relies on the rogue/mage to kill something before it has to blow through all its defensives. Which because disc is not tanky and cannot kite it has to blow it its defensive cds much faster than any other healer. Nor is disc all that mana efficient either.
You look at this much to quantitatively, you say well a spec is at X rating! its Viable! Like what percentage does a spec have to have to be considered viable? you never even gave a number.
When in actuality it is much more qualitative in nature whether a spec is viable or not.
Cuz right now RMP has been a Discipline priests best comp for ages, is a million times better off with a resto druid or holy pally. When you strip away the comp the spec alone is not viable. I dont get how you could say its a viable spec when in discipline priests historically best comp is better off with other healers.
Can you maybe plug a disc priest into other comps, and have it work as well? No, not really.
Its really bad for blizzards game for things to not all be equally viable. No one likes feeling like they are starting a match down 15 pts. Not ok that rdruid is tourney viable, but I guess disc is only glad viable?
Given X situation you would not take a disc priest in any comp really. Therefore the spec is not really all that viable.
Can you plug in hpally into many different comps? Yes
How about rsham? Yes
MW? yes
rdruid? yes
What about a disc priest outside of rmp/cupid? No not really.
I do believe that everyone either at a lower bracket to the high bracket are having problems with this patch as Blizzard has yet again failed to consider any side of any argument of any class of any spec. Yes I can understand that some people’s logic is a bit far fetch (nerf this this this this etc…). But coming out with a mana regen “fix” and then saying there are “PvP changes” when in fact you are trying to “fix” the problem you created last time there were “changes” is not doing this company, the developers of the game, the game itself, and the players any good. The credit deserve here is that you are “looking to improve the game” and I put the quotations marks hugely emphasized. I understand that no matter what is being put here you will hardly answer, look at, or pay attention to as long as you see the check in the mail from the game you continue to disappoint. There eventually will not be a check for you considering where this community is leaning towards. I do say that I speak for everyone when I say that PvP in this game is very toxic, unbalanced, and not rewarding. Bg’s is now something that awards little to no rewards for doing them. The LFG system is dry. If you are not “good” there is no point to look for something. If you are not the “meta” which you guys so happily put upon us there is no point to look for something. If your class just doesn’t fit anyone’s else comp there is no point to look for something. I do hope that while taking a look at this and what everyone else is saying that you do either consider replying to this in hopes that something will get fixed. I speak only for PvP I see you can fix things without making PvE a problem.
It does, because the whole point is to check if Disc Priest is viable to achieve certain rating. If you want you can filter to 1600 if that’s your objective or even search with no filters and the representation in % will be similar.
The number is the same as for Resto Druids (which you argue is the OP-omega-blaster-unbeatable-healer. And EVEN druid being so crazy OP like you say, still, we have the same representation as Hpals and DPrists above 2k rating:
Paladin Holy 6.4% (168)
Druid Restoration 5.8% (153)
Priest Discipline 5.6% (148)
And, there are ONLY 5 Holy Priests above 2k rating … that’s the kind of difference (148 vs 5) that tells which spec is, most likely, not really viable.
When you say “Disct Priest is not viable” there are 148 priests that “disagree” with that and at the same time we should ask the question: If resto druids are super OP and Disc Priests are not viable, why there’re so many Discs playing at the same MMR as the OP healers?
Could you explain why the number of Disc Priests is almost the same as the Resto Druids and HPals above 2k? I don’t think they are ALL running RMP…
Added a few possibilities there, are we talking about Tourney level viability or Glad/R1 viability?
As I said several times … Disc Priests are not at its best and sure need to be fixed/buffed, but still … viable. If it wasn’t viable, you would see the same level of representation as Holy Priest (which is not viable) and the same as many other under represented specs (MM Hunters, FDKs, etc).
You still didn’t get the point about viability … Maybe I’m not able to convey the idea due the language barrier (as I said before, English is my 3rd language) but we are kind of agreeing on the same thing but under two different points of view.
What you are not taking into consideration is that season 2 also started before the mana nerf and before everyone had maladict. Thats what your stats dont take into consideration.
Were resto druids even buffed to the level they were before season two start? Or did that happen shortly after season 2 start?
this absolute R uses 2k rating representation like it means something lmao!
Look at the last two tourneys, the highest level of play and tell me what the disc priest representation was. Now that is more accurate since these are the top level players playing whatever is the best.
Not live in an MMO where a lot of people main ONE CLASS and ONE SPEC and have for a long time and cant just reroll on a whim