Can confirm, PvP is trash. I queued tonight and fought nothing other than destruction warlocks flooded with nothing but haste corruption. And it was the most annoying thing on the planet. The game isn’t fun for PvP currently. But nothing’s gonna be done about it.
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no it wasn’t
you never played wotlk
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Nearly completely agree with OP. I’m pretty much a exclusive-PVP player I had also quit because of the difficulty of getting into PVP and felt that I couldn’t keep up with the grind. It’s sad because I (and I think a lot of other PVP players that have long quit) are basically begging Blizzard to make WOW PVP actually competitive and more accessible.
I think that WOW has by far the best multiplayer PVP gameplay of any top-down perspective game out there, but the barriers to PVP just make it inaccessible for people who care about competition and play-life balance. It should join the modern MMORPG world and take strides to equalize gear in PVP.
I recently resubbed because of COVID free-time, but was totally discouraged from even attempting to PVP at max level because of the huge gear grind (starting with no corruptions, essences, and very low iLevel). Instead, I’m leveling my first Horde character with the hopes that SL is better for PVP, especially for casual PVPers that still want to compete.
I’m just subbed month-by-month, and won’t be preordering SL. The recent track record for PVP does not leave me too optimistic, especially given that the only “new” PVP things that have been announced are the return of PVP vendors and a new Arena. Once things opens up again (post-COVID-lockdowns), I don’t think I’d be able to keep up with the covruption grind.
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I agree I think this is how games should be. But wow is an old game And the player base is used to the gear advantages. It isn’t necessarily wrong but it is a part of wows identity so I get why they keep it and why people like it.
It’s not the future of pvp though, as other games have shown. More of a template/gear irrelevant system is the trend, like it or not.
It can be both. MMORPGs are largely about the gear grind, so it’s fine for that to still be relevant in PvP.
However, there’s room for compromise.
WoD did the whole dual-ilvl + baseline thing. PvE gear was almost never stronger than what you’d get from just PvPing when used for PvP, and even a fresh alt could start PvPing and reasonably contribute because the baseline ilvl they’d scale up to was like… a difficulty tier below Honor Gear or whatever. Low with a clear path for improvement, but not “fresh max level alt” levels of garbage.
I liked that. I feel like it’s a better solution for MMORPG PvP than the Template garbage they tried with Legion.
That aside, What if the gear itself functioned as normal (or like WoD), but any bonus effects are disabled? No Azerite Traits, no Essences, no Corruptions. The gear is the gear in PvP and nothing more. Stat Procs that are part of an items budget as opposed to a bonus roll like Corruption would still function.
I’d be fine with that.
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Borrowed power is killing pvp more than gear ever did.
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PvP should be a combination of both.
I agree that skill should be emphasized, but I like getting better gear as a reward. I think that giving me an advantage over some players is a worthy reward for how much time I invest into PvP.
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I think I would prefer identical or near-identical gear-power on players, especially for competitive modes.
I think this feeling is shared by most PVP-focused players (those that participate more in PVP than PVE). These players neither want to be dominated by overgeared players, nor want to dominate undergeared players on account of their gear!
Rather, the accomplishment and pride comes from outplaying your opponents fair and square, and “leveling up” means learning the psychology of opponents and how to best use your abilities vs theirs, instead of increasing iLevel or gear.
However, I also see how people would enjoy a sense of progression in gear. I think this progression can come from cosmetic rewards, but if needed, a power-difference of 1-3% (as the difference between “above average” gear, and BiS) is nearly as high as it should go. With this small of a difference, a more skilled player still has a good chance of beating the lowered skilled, higher geared player and climbing up in ratings (for example). However, with power differences like 5-10%, I think this becomes much more difficult, especially as matches get drawn out. With BFA, I believe it’s been much worse than even this.
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Getting a lot of really thoughtful answers here thanks everyone for posting… I think @Ainsoph has summed it up perfectly. I can understand a power difference of 1-3%, but beyond that you just cant be competitive. Things like mounts, fun battleground consumables, tabards, and other cosmetic rewards can be given for PvP progression…
I understand this is an MMORPG, but I think each player should be able to have the gaming experience they enjoy… (I think) More often than not PvP players agree that there shouldn’t be an insurmountable power difference from gear. I can see a bonus, but it shouldn’t be the deciding factor in a match… often times before the arena even begins, you sit knowing you’ve lost just looking at health in the load screen… that is a bad PvP experience.
If PvE players want more gear and bigger numbers I totally think they should get to do that (no sarcasm!). (Barring a 1-3% difference based on gear @Ainsoph) I think PvP stats should be uniform for the classes/specs. I still don’t see how this would adversely affect the experience of a hardcore or casual PvE player.
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I am on the same boat, used to have time to invest for pvp but not anymore and it is totally fine, you just need to come to terms with it, you can keep at it casually (quite doable if you play 1 or 2 toons) or switch to another type of game like FPS were normally there is no gear and just skill involved.
I missed legion but it seems they already experimented with some kind of no gear required for pvp, meaning you would get a tiny advantage for higher ilvl but nothing game breaking. Since I missed the experiment I cant comment that much, but by reading the forums seems it was not very popular system.
Even right now they have some under the hood mechanics that try to lessen the gap of gear, and you cant really stomp someone like in the old days if you massively out gear them, in my humble opinion I don’t like it, if someone has invested more time and has better gear, it should be allowed to destroy a fresh 120, I would either have the no gear required or no training wheels at all, but that’s just my opinion. If I wanted a only skills matter game play I would not look for it on a MMORPG.
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Skill should be manual as well. No macros and addons allowed.
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Ummm… is that from somewhere? 
I heard that phrase before, but i don’t get it? was it a real thing or something?
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It’s a BfA thing because the balancing is atrocious.
This was essentially the only problem with templates. Being unable to tailor or choose your stat balances for secondaries killed it straight out the door.
If they want to try that sort of system again, they should look at Guild Wars 2 and its sPvP system. Totally dead mode, but still has the best gear system I’ve ever seen in MMO PvP. It’s similar to templates, but you can tailor and customize them to an absurd degree - lead to a lot of fun and interesting builds, before the meta became stale.
I think what utterly destroyed my desire to PvP anymore was just having to do PvE content to compete meaningfully. Spending Honor and Conquest on gear? That was fine. Perfect, even. You grind through the rough patch of not competing at your peak, but you get there eventually doing the content you actually want to do.
But when I saw I’d have to dedicate so much more time to PvE just to hold my own? I just threw my hands up in surrender.
Thank goodness for RP and rep grinding and all that; I’d have checked out, honestly.
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Oh. Okay.
Frankly, anyone selecting a rogue is winning in pvp at character creation. Sap, Cheap Shot, Kidney Shot, Blind, Garrote, Kick… great baseline pvp-relevant abilities + great pvp damage! The rogue’s worst xpac for pvp effectiveness is better than many classes best.
Listening to a ROGUE like the OP complain about how unfair pvp is like listening to an entitled uber rich kid complain how hard life and success were. Everyone knows Momma and Poppa Blizz Bucks bought him every life advantage, but he still wants you to feel his struggles were real.
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Well, you start with the first word, moving left to right. When you get to the end of the line you move one line down and continue reading left to right. Sentences start with a capital letter and end with a period. It’s really not that difficult if you put your mind to it.
well yes, yes i do. Especially if I am significantly better at sword fighting.
I only need the armor for when he lands a blow. IF i am good enough to prevent that from happening, then i could fight him naked and not worry about what im wearing.
Is that directed to me, or you are talking about rogues in general? You have the word rogue capitalized and italicized.