Dungeon Testing: June 24th - July 1st

The War Within Season 3 dungeon testing begins on PTR today. The test period starts on Tuesday June 24th at 12:00 PST (15:00 EDT, 22:00 CEST), and ends Tuesday July 1st at 10:00 PST (13:00 EDT, 20:00 CEST). Please note that the test period may be adjusted in the event of technical difficulties.

This week’s testing focus is on the new dungeon coming in The War Within Season 3: Eco-Dome Al’dani.

During the test period you’ll be able to acquire and customize Mythic Keystones by talking to the Keystone Vendor in Stormwind or Orgrimmar, and the nearby Dungeon Teleports NPC will assist you with transportation.

We look forward to hearing your feedback!

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Glad to be back testing once again. This will be my first impressions on the dungeon, and I’ll make a comprehensive list of more nuanced observations after I’ve done the key on more challenging levels.

Prior to this week, I had done this dungeon a couple times on Heroic, so I was already familiar with the mechanics and layout somewhat. My first run just a little bit ago was on a +10 Keystone level and comes from the perspective of a melee DPS.

Trash to Azhiccar

There is a lot of pathing variety here you can see right off the bat, and this area has overall the easiest feeling trash. You can get a lot of decent count here, but you can also choose to skip most of the area and go to the boss right away to put lust on CD as soon as possible.

While I think that more veteran players will understand the Hungering Devourer MIasma mechanic on the lieutenant mobs, mechanics like these should, moving forward, have better snap communication that this is something that you might want to stack for. Everyone was running away from each other until I explained the mechanic to them. Besides that, you can already see a trend of far less kicks/stops required that persists through the rest of the dungeon.

Azhiccar

A pretty good boss imo with decent cadence. I think a couple seconds more on the Toxic Regurgitation would be nice to open up more strategic placements, as otherwise right now, the best option seems to have everyone stack, the two people with Toxic Regurgitation stand still, and everyone but them rotates, then they rejoin. This is also in part because the Frenzied Mites spam jump constantly, so I mean you would have to stack anyways to kill them in any remotely quick time-span, and they do hurt.

The Devour mechanic, with Dimensius being the antagonist of this season, immediately felt fresh and surprisingly non-frictional, and is probably instantly one of my favorite implementations of it. Initially, I thought we would just need to kill the adds before it begins, but I like that we get two separate add spawns, and want to blow one up and keep the other CC’d until we can get to it, and that the suck is less about us and more about the adds. Just a nice, fun fight to play. Well done.

Trash to Taah’Bat and A’wazj

I think this is the more immediately problematic trash, in that the Overcharged Sentinel’s feel needlessly disruptive and never worth to pull unless you need to. With how easy it is to path around them, or how easy it is to pull one aside and Shadowmeld it, I can’t see anything but the one in the boss’s room being pulled ever past the first week. Besides that, there’s definitely way more casts in this area, but still not overkill besides if you pull too many Wastelander Ritualists, which is not necessary at all to time the key. But, because the timer and force count is lenient, makes this not a particular issue, and will only be a factor at high keys. But because the difficulty is consolidated here, you can aptly prepare for this pull and make certain to have all available utility.

I’m saying a lot of words to basically say that THIS is exactly how interrupt heavy packs should be done, and that this whole dungeon is a massive design improvement trending towards where keys should be going. Whoever made this place definitely gets it. Well done.

Beyond that, I felt the trash was appropriately tuned here. I think the third area is probably where tuning would change things the most.

Before I speak on the second boss, I’d like to talk about this dungeon’s difficulty, because I anticipate it being the focal point of this week’s discussion as more people get in here and voice their opinions.

Yeah, it’s not hard

We were DC’ing every so often throughout the key, with this being a complete PUG and the tank pulling pack-by-pack, and we still timed it with plenty of time to spare. Our damage wasn’t even that stellar, (4.4M, 3.5M, and 2.7M with the tank doing 2.27M and the healer 400k).

We had deaths throughout, with at least 1 on every boss as well. It wasn’t all that clean.

But it felt fair

Never once in this key did something work in a different way than your intuition would believe. Mechanics were clearly communicated. Counterplay was apparent. Things felt like they had appropriate health. I definitely felt like we could have played way faster even for a first time run.

And I think that’s fine. I think that is good. I want to stress this, because people will mistake all of the above as “too easy”, “undertuned”, etc. Let key levels handle these issues. The dungeon will become more difficult as things gain more health, as you’re forced to combine the packs we did apart, together. I can promise you that.

This dungeon is about playing your character well. I think Floodgate was almost there, which is why I loved it so much immediately last season as well, even though it was a bit overtuned in its first PTR testing. This came out just right. This is where keys need to trend to. This is the ideal.

Anyways, back to it.

Taah’Bat and A’wazj

This one felt a bit off on the pacing for me. It seems as if the Binding Javelins are meant to be a bit of a race to kill, but you can stack them close together in melee and they die relatively quickly. And, you have a little bit too much time to kill them. There’s also very little happening in between abilities for pretty much everyone, and it just feels a bit too empty here in terms of mechanics. I know this may initially seem strange based on what I just said above, but like I said, I think it’s just the pacing. Add another cast of Binding Javelins just before the intermission, or even one during it, that goes on 1 person, and I think this fight hits the intensity it seems it is trying to reach.

Trash to Soulscribe

This trash has one pretty glaring issue, and that is that you’re incentivized to skip the vast majority of it. The little siphoning rods that grant you haste aren’t worth pulling the inefficient packs near them, and everything has way too much health for the investment. Specifically, the Wastelander Pactspeakers are far too present and make chaining them into other packs relatively unwise for the frequency in which you would need to do so to make this area worth doing. I think they could use the Paladin tech from Priory where they cannot cast their Erratic Ritual within 4 seconds of the other, and same thing with the add they spawn. That, or their health should be brought down about 10%, or their count increased by 50%. Besides that, it’s definitely the most varied area, with the Burrowers feeling a bit random and sneaky, but I didn’t dislike playing it. I just wish it felt like the game wasn’t actively telling me not to pull big, then give me mobs with needlessly high health pools for their complexity.

Soul-scribe

A fun boss, but definitely feels a bit off in terms of the goal it’s trying to achieve. To me, this boss seems to want to be about balancing spatial awareness and protecting your soul. The time you are given is pretty much perfect, and I wouldn’t want that to change at all. What misses for me is that there’s almost no decision making to be had here. The souls spawn and you pick them up. This is especially confusing with the intermission, in which currently all of your souls can initially spawn in the cones, making it so you simply have to get them all.

To me, going into this fight, I imagined I would be forced to prioritize which souls to save, basically an on-the-fly puzzle I’d have to solve to get the souls that would be hit, and then get the souls that would be hit at a later time. Currently, none of the mechanics impose that choice upon you. It’s simply a “Hey, look at your screen–where is your soul? Go get it. Ok, don’t stand in anything”.

If that is the intent, and my interpretation is incorrect, then the pacing simply has to be faster, but my gut tells me that would just leave in a rather unsatisfying experience that becomes about twitch reflexes and naturally hurts some classes more than others.

Cool boss, but again, it misses the mark for me.

Overall verdict

I think this is a 9/10 dungeon from the first impression. It looks cool, has good bosses, well-designed trash (for the most part), and really hones in on what the feedback over the last few years has been regarding keys. I think a lot of my thoughts in each section may seem to lead in different directions, so I’ll offer this as sort of a summary of what I think they all amount to.

This is a good dungeon that is just missing the variety in choice. There is freedom, but no incentive to explore that freedom. The main focus in tuning this dungeon should be allowing further exploration of routing, otherwise it will turn into a very scripted experience, which I think would be disappointing due to the potential of this key.

Guardian druid tier set is not proccing at 40% chance per thrash it procs less than 4 times per pull and on 1 pull at 29 thrash’s it only procced twice. i don’t know where the tier set bug forum is but i was in a dungeon when i found it

Alright, so I’ve done Eco Dome about 15 times from 10-12 (mostly 12) and a few times on 14-15, tanked and DPSd, so I feel like I have a pretty good grasp on the dungeon now. I’m still positive of it overall and I don’t really feel like much of my initial impressions have changed besides understanding the final area more. I’ll cover the trash, the bosses, area design/pathing and force distribution.

Trash

From my first impressions, I felt that this dungeon was a massive step in the right direction in terms of difficulty and complexity, and this has only been supported by further testing. The pulls are varied throughout the key and do have threatening casts and dangerous abilities, but dangerous abilities have much longer cast times than others and tend to not overlap obnoxiously, thereby requiring chaining stops to make them playable.

I only tanked on a VDH, which felt pretty unkillable throughout the entire key, and DPSd on melee and range, and even the larger pulls felt more than doable and not a massive time-sink to learn like some pulls in the current and previous dungeon pools, which is a big win imo.

I will again mention that I would prefer the Pactspeakers to have a health reduction, or give them the Paladin tech from Priory where they cannot overlap their Erratic Ritual casts.

Or, you could make it so that the Consume Spirit cast does not give them a massive shield no matter what you do. I find this behavior quite obnoxious since the shield is not dispellable, unless my UI is bugged or something?

The Overcharged Sentinels aren’t as bad to play as I thought they were and certainly are worth the count, but from watching streams and looking through logs they are disproportionally difficult for some tanks to play, which may just speak to tank balance as a whole rather than the individual mob, but I thought it worth mentioning. I also find that their area denial (Arcane Burn)could be better telegraphed besides the tiny little lightning zap, as that ability is quite deadly on higher keys and there wasn’t really any great sound cue when it occurred either.

It would be nice for it to be better communicated what trash in particular is needed to be eliminated to activate the second boss as well.

Bosses

I think that perhaps I was too harsh on the second boss on my initial pass. From having done the dungeon far more, it definitely seems like the ease of this boss comes from the ability to easily pull in trash to the fight to speed up the dungeon, and I quite like this design.

I think the 3rd boss still has the same issues I saw in my initial impression, although on reflection I was incorrect about the souls being able to spawn in the cones as I think I simply thought they were spawning in there, but I do still believe that the big cones should have better indicators for their borders. Besides that, I do also still believe there should be a better indicator for your soul, like a beam of light as it is still quite difficult to see your soul on the Dread of the Unknown cast given the time you have.

It is also perhaps a bit too healing intensive at present? Very Swampface reminiscent where the ticking damage is quite insane the higher you go which naturally forces some classes out. Echoes of Fate could see a 6-8% nerf and I don’t think it massively changes the difficulty but makes it so more classes are viable here.

I also would like to see a movement speed increase attached to the buff granted when you pick up your soul.

Area Design/Pathing

Some creative routing and pathing is available in here for sure, although currently it seems pretty set in stone.

Like I mentioned before, I think the layout of the dungeon offers a lot of design creativity, but I have two small suggestions to really bring out the most in Eco Dome.

  1. Remove the barrier to the second area. To me, the only reason for this existing seems to be to naturally funnel people towards the worm their first time in the instance. Beyond that, this just limits route expression and I think it would be far more interesting if you could path this way early on.
  2. The Siphon pylons in the 3rd area most assuredly could use a large buff. They’re currently a net loss to use even with all 5 players channeling to complete it as fast as possible. It needs to be at least 10 seconds longer and twice as powerful to be worth the time.

Force (Dungeon Count) Distribution

The single biggest issue to me stems from the imbalance of the third area. Currently, I feel the dungeon is very very close to being completely figured out and optimized already, which is pretty crazy honestly for the first week.

Much of the trash in the third area is simply not worth the time it takes to kill it or much more difficult than the trash in the rest of the instance, so you essentially pull what you need to pull to get through it and add in any mobs that aren’t bad (note: any pack that doesn’t contain a Packspeaker).

You then double up the final pull to activate Soulscribe, because fighting 3 mobs feels bad, and then pull in trash to fight during the boss as there’s a pack that pretty much only does damage to the tank nearby.

The big sand bois I think would be interesting to be able to pull, as they certainly could be a riskier option if you chose to play them, but currently they don’t provide nearly enough force to make them worth it. A lot of the mobs in this third area also just feel like they take forever to die, mostly because of how many shields are going out and how you’re forced to save kicks for Arcing Zaps and Bolts.

Regarding the first area, people have started pulling the Ravenous Destroyer mobs just because they’re easy, but personally I think they’re a big time-sink and not worth the count at 1.6-1.7. I think for their health, you could up this to 1.9 or even 2.01 and it would open up some more options.

I do think that the Sentinels currently are actually TOO efficient, given that while they’re difficult, they’re certainly way more time-efficient than Pactspeakers, mostly because it is incredibly easy to pull them with other packs, while doing large pulls in the third area is a pain due to the amount of casters and ranged mobs. However, I think the best way of dealing with this is to up Pactspeaker count while nerfing them as I suggest previously.

Right now, you typically arrive at the third area anywhere from 63-70%, and I think that a more general route probably wants to be 60% at the highest, while a route focused on playing as much in the first two areas as possible should end around 67%. Considering the final pack to activate Soulscribe provides around 7%, this would still make you have to play a good amount of the third area, and if you appropriately tune the force distribution, then this definitely would require you to play more trash in this area, but as of now this still means you would play whatever is easiest, and I think a dungeon where you can mix things up and pull differently than you would without being extremely penalized is a better experience for everyone.

We will be extending testing on Eco-Dome Al’dani through today and updating the PTR dungeon pool with a build update tomorrow.

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