define “good” 
Ask the OP, not me. I don’t care to argue it any further, it isn’t my opinion.
Apples to oranges, but is that really how you view yourself? Showing some humility would be good for your overall message.
nice projection. you’re the one who needs to show some humility. maybe, just maybe, your thoughts on vanilla pvp are flawed.
First and foremost, just having the gear matter at all automatically removes it from the running.
Zero actual matchmaking, just throwing 10 random players who happened to pick the same color together against a dedicated group of 10 who spend their every aching moment in game working towards dominating in PvP is another item that automatically removes it from the running of being “good.”
That’s ignoring how little balancing is done around PvP specifically. They can absolutely balance classes and abilities independently of PvE, but they barely did that for Retail and refuse to for Classic (probably because Classic Andy’s turn feral when you dare even suggest any change)
Like, it’s not a good PvP game. AGAIN, I NEVER SAID NOT ENJOYABLE It’s just not good.
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Oh yeah?
Notice that in all of my responses I never boasted my PvP knowledge or diminished yours. You have an opinion and I have mine. The difference is, you are attacking me for having mine. You think your opinion is a fact, because, well… reasons? This is because of your ego.
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Stinky is one of the better pvp druids in era… What do you do? PVE down scripted dragons? So I guess we can’t have opinions or give feedback now?
How mad would you be if all your pve gear was ONLY useable in raids like the 1 piece of pvp gear they tossed us?
I just think it’s not a good DEFAULT COMPETITIVE game, like first person shooters dota or StarCraft or what have you.
It’s not meant to, or at least they don’t care to
Doesn’t mean it can’t be competitive by community niche standards
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when someone is better at X than I am, and his opinion differs from mine on X, I tend to think maybe I’m wrong about X. this is normal.
Consumes indeed give a level of homogenization, but its stuff you select and its a resource you bring like burning mana or rage or energe. They are a cooldown like blind, rep, hoj, protection and freedom.
The fact that these things exist give the player the option to select his play style via his class and select alternative kit via trade skills and consumables.
You elude to saying consumables remove skill and timing, but truth be told they do also require skill, game knowledge and good timing.
The number of grenades I have dodged, the times I have baited a battle while a warrior is FaP to get a blind sap or blind re-re and a dispel of the fap just to delete the EFC, or the number of times I have baited a LAP just to blind or rep, hell even bait to eat the blind so the friendly rogue near can sap or clean open a few sec later.
You say these remove timing and skill, but this just demonstrates your lack of game knowledge, and dude, I don’t even claim to be “good” and even I know this stuff…
Just goes to show that you have a lot to learn and no room to complain when you don’t even have basic game knowledge.
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Guy asked me to argue someone else’s point. I answered. I don’t really think this needs to be argued any further with me since I’m guessing at someone else’s opinion.
Pve players have been saying the same line of garbage for the past 17 years . " Pvp is such a novelty " . Compete garbage coming from Pve players . I don’t want to hear no more of that nonsense coming from these players .
you: some people say vanilla pvp sux
him: can you explain why?
you: gee i dunno, i’m just saying SOME people say that
If internet points make you fold on your opinions then they aren’t opinions at all. Be a leader, not a follower.
Your opinions are wrong based off your little to no experience.
Your backtracking is embarassing.
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He didn’t ask me to defend my stance on why Vanilla PvP sucks, he asked me to defend that other guys stance on why Consumables and Engineering is bad for PvP.
If we are being totally honest, not a single one of you asked why I have the opinion that I have, you just immediately told me that I’m bad because I have it.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Oh wow… that’s… the funniest thing i’ve read all week
Small correction, 3 out of 12 are exceptionally strong, 3 of em are good, and the other 6 are crap, with every “Shadow” related one except for homunculi being garbage, much like the boomy ones are mostly meh
You’re laughing but he’s not wrong. Like many games where a player is truly lacking understanding of the depth of a game can he say with a straight face a game is bad or is imbalanced.
Perhaps you’re confused? He was talking about Era, not SoD.
Wow’s PvP has always been problematic because of its depth and nuance, and its had High points and low points across its many years, but Vanilla PvP is actually very good onany class and build excluding Enhancement build Shamans who honestly have it bad, but everything else is at dead minimum good to great, but requires you have basic game knowledge, the gear required for the build and class you are playing and team mates who know how to play with the build you selected.
The only complaint I have regarding vanilla pvp coming back from retail arena is that getting some of the gear sets needed for certain builds to be Good is sometimes annoying and time consuming making it far more practical to pvp more user friendly builds.
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it’s well documented Vanilla wow was not even a fraction of a fraction of balanced in any way, shape, or form for any mode whatsoever, it embraced the inherent imbalances of an rpg, which is great if you care for it, but let’s not pretend it was some nuanced perfect game, it was not, it was great, warts and all though
(edit, changed characters to this one finally, been posting on my retail character for a week)
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They are good classic PvP players who are incapable of looking at it objectively.