This time around, is this the 3rd or 4th time around?
I’ve lost track.
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Great unpruner was sent his merry way the first time around but yeah this time around he has returned to a greater final form in theory.
Lets see if the great unpruner has any clout or is he another yes man taking orders? 
I wonder if Venruki knows this thread is still active
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We did it.
We’ll see. Please let them make PVP the best way to gear for PVP.
I mentioned it to him on Twitter when he shared his “This Needs Fixed” video that it was at 1909 comments and still on the front page of the forums and he said “didn’t know that, that’s pretty insane”
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PvP specific stats, 2set pvp bonus for pvp trinket, relevant ilvl gear, lets go blizzard!
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so much in shadowlands looks amazing, just them keeping true to the addition of pvp vendors and giving us players viable pvp gear to give a huge portion of the player base happy until next expac.
i pray blizz listens, forcing pvp players to pve and vice versa just forces players to adapt or leave… and i feel more have left then adapted and for a just reason. time to Make Arena Great Again MAGA 2020 octorber 27th!
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They are already aware of the vice-versa part of the argument. Once somebody gets their BiS essence, they never have to step into PVP again to raid competitively at the very highest levels of PVE.
They know perfectly well that people would quit.
What’s astonishing is that they are willing to sacrifice a large portion of their PVP subscriptions. They’re sabotaging their own game.
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Let’s keep this topic upped
Ion: Gets rid of PvP gearing.
PvP Community: Please bring that back.
Ion: Brings back “PvP” gear with weak stats.
PvP Community: No, please bring it back the way it used to be. MoP or WoD would work.
Ion: Okay, we MIGHT fix the stats.
PvP Community: What? Please just bring back real PvP gear.
Ion: Hmmmm…not sure how to fix this…
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Ion, please listen to the pvp community and bring back pvp stats that are BETTER than pve gear in instanced pvp. Just stop it Ion, just stop it.
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I think the best solution would be a mix of two things:
- giving more options on stats on the vendor (not all combinations, but have a reasonable amount of desired stats).
- make a non unique PvP set bonus, that if you are wearing 6+ items from PvP vendor, your healing done, damage done, damage taken, CC duration is increased/decreased by 10%(engaged in combat with enemy players)
This would address a problem in PvP with insane amount of CC that certain comps bring and will make PvP items desirable for PvP.
Make another bonus for trinkets. separate from the gear bonus, to make PvP trinkets on-par/cometitive with PvE trinkets that you could get to avoid problem we had in BFA with drest and remote guidance device (as well as claw and some other examples)
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Definitely aren’t feeling alone my friend.
Little background; I started playing wow at the end of Burning Crusade. I remember vividly because I couldn’t understand why I would aggro these god awful ghouls at the town on my rogue. I died so many times… thank god it was just Wrath of the Lich King pre-patch. I’ve played PvP mostly since WoTLK, although the last few expansions have been progressively worst. BFA I haven’t hardly PvP’d at all, because as you said, there is no reward in it. You must play PVE to be competitive, but the PVE content takes up all my time.
The way I’d like to see it go is this:
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Tier S - Highest ilevel gear
Rated BG’s and Mythic Raiding. Both the highest level of content for the respective sections. You require large groups of players to achieve the most difficult task. -
Tier A - Second highest ilevel gear
Arena and Mythic +. This is again breaching the hardest content for the respective, although the groups are considerably smaller, so I feel it should be slightly less ilevel than the prior tier. -
Tier B - Third highest ilevel gear
Random BG’s and Mythic 0. This is where most people are going to grind to go in the direction they want in the content. -
Tier C - Lowest ilevel gear
Starter crafted, heroic dungeons. This is where you will start if you’re a boosted character or just reached max level. It serves as the starting point for PVE or PVP.
Now that we have the gear ilevel’s sorted out, we need to address the difference in PVE gear vs PVP gear. I’ve played Wotlk where resiliance was a thing. God I hated it on my ret paladin because it directly reduced my chance to crit and I could never survive since I needed those crits on judgement for instant self heals. I’ve played Cata where I could join a raid and do top damage in PVP gear. I played MoP where PVP power would create damn near one shots in a global. The recent expansions with PvP scaling in PvP combat not only is the most unsatisfying alternative, but the laziest.
In my opinion, we should either change versatility or add a new stat that would be the combination of Resiliance and PvP power. It will increase damage done to players and reduce damage taken from players. It is important to do both, so that when 2 equally geared PvP players are engaging each other, the difference in actual damage can be tuned to be minimal. But when you are engaged with a PvE player there will be enough of a significant difference that it will become more important than ilevel for the most part. However, it can’t be overwhelming.
Like the OP mentions, I’ve done PvE all expansion and I honestly don’t mind the Mythic dungeons. I don’t want it to be the focal point, but if I were to have PvP gear I would like to dabble in it to broaden the content I play.
If we have PvP gear with 1 normal stat and a PvP stat, while PvE gear having 2 normal stats, it will cause the gear to cross to the other content but not as effectively as the content preferred gear. If I have highest PvP gear in the game, I’d really like to be able to at least be the bottom of the DPS charts in a mythic raid, you know? Give me that option.
In addition, there is a few other important things I’d like to bring up.
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I did like the reforging idea to tune the character the way you want. Maybe you feel like you can get away from having so much of one stat.
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PvP set bonus are an excellent way to give some flavour to the PvP gear. I have always enjoyed it thoroughly. Should they be active in PvE? I’d like it to be, but that could prove very difficult to implement without being exploited like corruption was in BFA.
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Gems and socket bonuses. Another way to tune your character, although the sockets shouldn’t be able to be added like it is in BFA.
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Diminishing returns! This is important. It prevents a spec from running away from its design, although it worked wonders for my Demo warlock. It actually made it viable, but that is a whole 'nother ball of wax. It does create a lot for value for gear that may not have the most desirable stats. If you get the highest ilevel gear from a RBG but it doesn’t have the stats you want, you could still make effective use of it if you hit soft cap on the stats you want through other gear.
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PvP vendors. Now this is a tricky one. I do like the idea of RNG, although the extreme side that BFA was at with corruptions was far too much. You still should reliably be able to get your BiS piece in time. Such as loot drops for specific bosses in dungeons… eventually you’re going to get the drop one can hope. I don’t know how we can have that affect in PvP though. Honestly, I think a vendor is the only way to effectively hand out PvP gear. I mean you can have loot that drops from bosses in AV that would only be attainable through that content, maybe high ilevel in RBG and lower ilevel in BG’s. It again could add the RNG that feels super exciting to get and would revive the older large style BG’s. Looting corpses could give you gear depending on the class they are? Not sure what other ideas there are. It does get monotonous to just grind honour or conquest to buy the gear you want.
That’s about all I have. I hope it adds some value to Blizzards changes they want to implement.
It’s a good day to up this topic
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The new changes are definitely a step in the right direction and I am very glad to see blizzard listened to the feedback.
I would suggest two additional modifications. I understand Blizzard’s perspective that no player who focuses on one form of content (raid, m+, PvP) should be able to get their BiS from solely that one content form. I am not trying to debate or otherwise relitigate that stance. I believe my suggestion is a fair compromise between our concerns while still sticking to Blizzard’s design philosophy.
In light of that belief, I feel that the best way to address the concerns we still have would be to enhance the already good set bonus that was put into place on PvP trinkets. Unfortunately, an issue still remains in that the set bonus for the two trinkets is simply not strong enough to encourage players to not equip unbalanced PvE trinkets (if we end up with more drests, bikes, tank trinks, vitas, etc).
Creating a further set bonus for 4 and 6 PvP items equipped (mandating 2 PvP trinkets to reach the 4 and 6, in other words you can’t just equip 6 other items and no PvP trinkets and get this bonus) would fix this issue in the best way. [Quick aside - Why 6 and not 8, 10, or an entire set? Because this is a compromise solution. I know many of us would just want it to be for equipping all PvP gear and only PvP gear should be good in PvP. That is not in the cards, they have said as much dozens of times now. Let’s try to propose realistic solutions instead which fit in with Blizzard’s stated gearing philosophy].
While again I am not here debating the philosophy behind requiring players to do other forms of content, by the very nature of the current PvP gearing system (honor is not capped, but is low ilvl) and simply due to the fact that conquest is capped weekly for what you can farm and buy at the vendor, this further change is needed to put our gearing process more on par with M+ and raiding.
As it stands currently, I know myself and other PvPers are planning to just do all M+ to gear. Nobody will be doing BGs because of the time sink for low gear, and once we get our conquest cap and fill the chest to the maximum weekly, that’s it. M+ currently allows players to farm 15s over and over again to obtain upgrades with no limit. Since there is no PvP stat, this essentially forces us to do endless M+ still in order to gear in the most efficient manner. PvP gearing still is second rate for PvPers.
We should expand the 2 trinket set bonus to reward players who equip 4, and then 6 (including PvP trinkets) items. A simple way would just be to expand that versatility improvement number. Plus, if you make the 2 set trinket required to unlock the 4 and 6 set bonus, this would remove the issue of unbalanced PvE trinkets. And the best part is, the design philosophy of encouraging players to do other content still exists. For those other 8-10 slots (depending on if two hand or one and off hand user, and depending on if the set bonus is 4 or 4 and then a 6) players are free to pursue PvE gear, or even just fill out the rest of their set with PvP gear. Given the design of what the vendor sells, players will need to do M+ and/or raid anyway to get their BiS since the vendor won’t contain all of the stat combos for each piece. I have no issue with this. What I do have an issue with is there is still no incentive to not just chain queue M+ for 3 days straight to get a full set of gear before even the first weekly reset. Incentivize us to wear at least 1/3- to 1/2 of the gear we earn from doing our content. And as an added benefit, the gear we earn from doing our content will be the best for our content. A 2400 elite player will have the highest ilvl equipped for his/her 4 or 6 PvP items. By default those who are better at PvP will have a slight advantage that can not be taken from them, even with mythic raid gear or m15 weekly chest gear. And since it’s just 4 or 6 items, they won’t be able to roll over low rated players because the gear will only be about 5-10 ilvl higher and only for 4 or 6 slots. But, we still get a small, rewarding advantage for our higher rating. As it stands now, the small rewarding advantage in arena is afforded to those with enough WoW tokens to buy mythic raid carries. This shouldn’t be.
I hope this is a constructive feedback. TLDR is essentially that the set bonus should be expanded beyond 2 trinkets to include a 4 piece and then a 6 piece set bonus for equipping PvP gear (but still requiring the two trinkets equipped to reach 4 or 6) Versatility in PvP increasing substantially with each higher set bonus number. I believe this will assuage most of our concerns that M+ is still a better gearing method because we are going to inherently always need 6 pieces of PvP gear total equipped regardless. All the while, it allows blizzard to stick with their main design philosophy of requiring players to do other forms of content (m+,raid and PvP) to fully gearing BiS.
Thanks and stay healthy and safe
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It will depend how much the aura buffs the vers dmg/healing. Healers however I definitely see always using it for the increased healing.
There’s a spirit link trinket and a trinket that does 2k healing and stores a 15k before versa etc
Also another absorb trinket that provides versa and a heal when the absorb breaks on a 1 min cd
Still incredibly hard pressed to believe a 20% versa aura can amount to an additional save/hard stop
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and their reduced dmg won’t probably be able to beat out the increased heals.