PvP Bugs - Fixes - Shield of Veng Bug

There’s a lot that’s wrong with ret right now. We’re tuning them constantly for nerfs, but we’re not fixing their bugs. I, as well as several dozen other rets in Vanguards Discord as well as the Paladin Discord, are having issues where Shield of Vengeance goes on CD, it gives out health bar the absorb shield, but then we still just take full damage on everything through it. It doesn’t even exist. I’ve had a dozen different games this week where I’ve had to overlap a defensive because shield of vengeance doesn’t work, or I’ve outright died because it was my last defensive and didn’t exist. The healing done doesn’t even show up on Details despite the CD being active on my character.

Also, the hunter feign death healthbars disappearing bug is extremely vexing for all those I’ve spoken with it about (not just ret paladins). I would love to see some kind of hotfix for both of these bugs as we can so easily nerf a rehauled (mid season mind you) class mid week. Little salt, sure, but imagine your buttons just outright not even working despite pressing them.

Also, ret does need a nerf to the judgement dispell honor talent. I would love to see a complete rehaul of their honor talents like they did the class as the ones we have now all feel negligible at best at the moment. With the nerfs, luminance is really irrelevant, lawbringer is irrelevant, the new spell bop is really cool but is fairly situational, and sanc feels irrelevant with this judgement dispell honor talent. Especially if you take the double charge judgement. I would love to see some kind rework of the honor talents, if not a re-tune because 2% on the aforementioned honor talents is just too low to make any sort of impact on gameplay, positive or negative.

TL;DR - Shield of Vengeance doesn’t exist as a defensive due to bugging, Hunter Feign Death healthbar disappearing needs to be fixed ASAP as it affects EVERYONE (also, pet frames please), and Judgement dispell honor talent (and the honor talents as a whole) needs to be reworked.

Thank you.


video for anyone that hasnt seen it

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What do you mean exactly? Like after the feign the healthbar is permeantly gone? Or just gone while they’re laying on the ground?

The health bar will sometimes bug out and disappear on their screen after the hunter feign deaths.

I think this might be a bug with shields in general? I heard it’s happening to MW as well.

This ability has existed for 7 years. The only reason it’s been brought up is because after the last set of changes, a lot of talents have become close to obsolete (or is bugged).


Yeah, I’ve just been seeing it happen the most with ret. <10% hp, uses shield, dies anyways.

Disappears from the Hunter. I hadn’t seen it until a few weeks ago when I tweaked my UI and now I wish I could tweak it back. :dracthyr_cry_animated: Swinging the camera around seems to fix it.

unless i’m completely fried they added it in the middle of shadowlands not even 2 years ago?

it’s never not been complained about, it caused ret alone to auto 1v3 jungle all of SL
that + unbound freedom easily brought ret back from being “countered by mages”

ret has been reworked and doesn’t need gimmicks to beat mages that spill over into everything else now

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Try kui addon I haven’t had that issue

Unless you were on a different forum/reddit/lfg, I never saw any complaints for Judgement of the Pure.

Hardly, while ret-warr was favoured into Jungle, it was nowhere near a free win. There were points in the xpac where the matchup is about 50-50 (mainly during the holy priest peak power) by dampening the ret-warr. No other ret comp was favoured into jungle. And when I say no other comp, I pretty much just mean cupid. No other comp existed for ret. Many top rets also simply didn’t take Jotp into Jungle due to the inconsistency, as it’s a 50/50 with Hunter’s Mark up.

Very rarely did anyone take JoTP into mages. Unbound/Aura of Reckoning/Sanc, Jurisdiction or Luminescence depending on the matchup were locked in.

Also, I’m not sure what the quotations are for. RMP was a counter to ret warr and is straight up a better comp than cupid. Lock/mage and ele/mage (earlier in the xpac) were basically unwinnable matchup for ret warr (outside of lucky 1-shots). The caster matchup was better for cupid but still an extremely poor matchup.

yea 2k players didn’t complain about it because they rarely ever even know whats happening

99% of 2k hunters probably just think their partner broke their trap

it’s stronger now because judge is like 1 third the cooldown it was when it was added like 2 seasons ago which makes it even more annoying for specs like elemental and moonkin to have 0 counterplay dot removal constantly

this is user error

the jungle could fluke wins but it was not 50-50 at any point ever lmao

the purpose of jotp and unbound were to shore up rets weaknesses
their biggest at the time (and historically) being mages

obviously jotp missed the mark but at this point it’s not needed anymore
the spec functions differently enough that you aren’t completely miserable into double wizard or mages in general


While players at higher rating are not gaping their cross CCs to allow for the dispel in the first place.

My Judgement was like 9 sec cd at the end of SL and it’s at 7.7 right now. HOWEVER, rets now have a talent that gives them 2 charges of Judgement (the alternative is 2 HP for judgement cast).

No it’s not. After the nerfs to banner/ret damage in pvp and during the point in time when Hpriest was considered to be by far the strongest healer, higher rated jungle teams is able to survive ret/warr go’s consistently and take the game in dampening to win on mana.

I don’t know if that was ever the intent for this ability. The RNG nature of the ability means it was unlikely to remove a root or poly from a mage due to the large number of abilities, but it will have a very high chance of removing debuffs from specs with few but powerful debuffs like trap, mind games, etc…or something like a destro lock’s fear/immolate or spriest’s devouring plague + 1 more magic debuff.

yeah i guess the players you fight at 1800 have it all figured out and good players are just cooked

nobodies complaining but L2P noobs !1!!!

it was like 12 when it was added

? what is it gonna get then


Mines 7.2 and I could put more haste on still

Yes, I killed a ret through Shield Vengeance when he had low hp he had used it, but still took 24k damage and died.

Then when I was playing ret I took damage through Shield of Vengeance and died. It has some kind of delay imo. The shield doesn’t apply right away.

I mean there are several factors

Firstly shuffle wasn’t the prominent game mode. You’d have to be a moron not to realize how much more broken JoTP gets in shuffle compared to everyone only doing rated arena exclusively

Secondly, there were ret warriors that did take it, some rets would opt into it - others would just opt into just playing more offensively and preferring to just trade/zug by taking better honor talents at the time (consistency is obviously generally better than something that is situationally very toxic). So there was at least somewhat of an important tradeoff when you had to choose between consistent talents and something that CAN be really oppressive.

Rets obviously were also a bit weaker in other areas, and now those weaknesses have been addressed on top of also having other nice things (2 charges of judge can be nice still).

So now it’s not even some sort of tradeoff to take JoTP, you’ve gotten a lot of your weaknesses covered, and the prominent game mode is shuffle. It was always a toxic honor talent whenever it could be used. This is similar to how Holy Priests honor talents were - they were a complete extreme where their spec was mostly bad (especially in BfA) but they had some of the most disgusting honor talents ever. When they actually became better at straight-up healing things like Holy Ward were absurdly oppressive to deal with.

It’s such an obvious thing to see that it’s a horribly designed talent - the game is not designed around DPS frequently having a defensive magic dispel.

Dude you can only dispel the CCs from the target you use the Judge on

If you use a Judgement on the mage you can’t get immolates from the warlock

You can only get the mages Novas or Polymorphs LOL

That’s like half of what makes it so stupid as well - you can just guarantee who you’re magic dispelling.


They could rework/replace this honor talent with Long arm of the Law’s effect (or something very similar to it) and I imagine it would be a healthier prospect of keeping the spec competitive for the remaining duration of the expansion while attempting to making changes that aren’t too invasive to its kit.

why are you stacking haste on live? Conquest is easy to farm atm.

First, my comment specifically replied to the comment in the context of hunter in jungle (since that was what we were talking about at the time). If the hunter/feral wasn’t crossing maim/trap at least every minute and 30 sec into most comps, then that’s sloppy.

Second, just because someone is r1, doesn’t mean they are necessarily right. Even if Judgement hit every single target on every single cast, which it doesn’t it is nothing like MD considering it only removes 1 magic/1 disease/1 poison from every player it hits.

It could get a slow, a dot, or any other debuff. Judgement of the Pure does not dispel every debuff cast by someone it hits. It dispels 1 random poison, 1 random disease and 1 random magic debuff cast by the target from 1 person on your team. If you have more than 1 debuff of the same type across any number of players on the enemy team, then it is not guaranteed to dispel what you want it to.

I had this happen to my cocoon yesterday. Felt suuuuuper bad, especially since it was 50 stacked.

This is so incorrect, ret/War and cupid both dome jungle lol.

Right now yeah, but the comment was on SL. Cupid was not favoured into Jungle.