PvE elitism ruins the game

it’s silly, 453 ilvl and can’t get into a +5 mythic. what do you guys want??? a kidney??? a 5000 IO score??? jesus christ it’s like im licking my own sack and it’s still not enough

everyone wants overkill for their group and not like a lilttle bit of insurance but MASSIVE 15+ item level advantages, i dont like failed groups either but dude cmon, its a mythic, please take your AOTC stick out of your mount for a moment

8 Likes

People will take the best they can get.

Make your own group with your own key and work your way up to your own +5. Don’t have a key ? make a group for any M0 and kill the final boss of the dungeon.

Being picky and selective about group members is (ideally) the way that group leaders minimize the chance of their group failing. As for ilvl, there is no correlation between ilvl and player competence anymore in legion or BFA. Experience is king. Ilvl requirements are simply filters to minimize the amount of applicants you need to sift through and decline. Think of it exactly how HR people think of educational degrees in job applications, just a filter.

Insulting people won’t get them to act friendly and helpful towards you. This goes towards everything in life, not just WoW.

6 Likes

this is easily done but doesn’t address the root problem

duude that’s what im saying lol, but people go gaga over a high item level, it’s pretty crazy, i’ve been doing hardmodes since wotlk but i’m getting declined? ok boss suit yourself

I do not offer my services to people with this mentality

i am not a new player by any means, i don’t need these groups, just saying dang, ya’ll really wanna act like this? lol

The problem is you can’t get into a group. Getting a key and making a group gets you into a group. How does this not resolve the root problem? How another player chooses to invite players into their group is literally none of your business.

Okay, I found the problem. You don’t have “services” to offer. You’re a 451 enhance shaman with an IO score of 92. You are not special, or valuable. You are one of hundreds of dps, most of whom have more gear and experience than you. Stop pretending that you’re the straw that stirs the drink and your experience will change.

Complains about “PvE elitism”, then talks about offering your dps “services” on a minimally geared, minimally experienced character. You are the elitist you hate.

20 Likes

typical zoomer entitlement

5 Likes

The thing you think that is a problem is actually people choosing who they want to bring. There’s nothing wrong with that at all.
There’s nothing worse than being forced to play or socialise with people you don’t want to.

However, what Crossbless suggested actually does solve your problem.
It gives you the power to pick who you want to play with.
Giving yourself the power to not force yourself to play with people you don’t want to.

Previous expansion experience is just as meaningless as item level.

But tbh, with the way you’re conducting yourself just from your OP, I bet the people who declined you are probably glad they didn’t invite you.

Respect is earned not granted based on benefit of the doubt.
Honestly no sentient being would be mad at ‘this mentality’

Then why even come to make the thread and insult the people you encountered, and then return to the thread again?
Simply ignore what happened and move on with your life?

^ tldr

1 Like

Based off what I’ve seen here, I wouldn’t run with you. At all.

4 Likes

IO score is just a means to pretend to be able to assess someone’s skill lol, IO score does not tell you I’ve been doing dungeons for 10 years. VERY FEW current PvE players have more experience than me, and this probably includes you, so jot that down. If you weren’t doing heroic content before mythic was around, you’re my junior! LOL!

But keep defending the fact that you screen people for easy dungeons that anyone can do. M 20? okay, makes sense, pick carefully. M 5? To be elitist over that just shows you are unable to judge what content is challenging and what is not.

yeah Quizshift idk what im gonna do now. was really hoping you’d join me for this mythic, aw jeez god help me i am screwed

1 Like

So if you as tank/healer start a M+ group and get 10 dps applicants within the first 2 minutes (which is quite plausible) and 9 of them are 465-470 ilvl and there’s one 445 ilvl… you’re saying you’d choose the 445?

4 Likes

15 seconds.

At that level I invite the first people to sign up, but I expect to carry that anyway.

2 Likes

Sure, I just assumed he’d think I was lying if I used a more realistic amount of time!

1 Like

Nobody cares how many years you’ve been doing dungeons. They want to know if you might have some awareness of which interrupts are important, how to handle boss mechanics, and what your responsibilities are on affixes. None of that is learned years ago; it’s learned by doing the BFA dungeons, which increases your IO score.

And this is why looking at achievements can be helpful. You would see that I earned Light of the Dawn before the Cata pre-patch. You would see a 3 drake Sartharion achievement when it was current. You would also note that I have achievements from the first day the achievement system went live, so it wouldn’t be unreasonable for you to accept that I was end game raiding in BC, when I started playing.

Maybe it’s because I’m not an arrogant douche, but I’ve never expected any special treatment based on how long I’ve played. I expect to be required to earn a place in each new patch of content in each expansion. Think about that, “junior”.

4 Likes

Here we are again with people saying “You gotta earn your place”.

That is what increasing ilvl is for. IO score, achievements are just participation trophies. Nobody should care about it in big picture. IF you do you’re more interested in shallow achievement than being a fair gamer who also has fun.

The whole Mythic+ system with timers for the best loot is a broken system for people who are not in with the hardcore crowd. Plain and simple. Broken and people being arseholes because of it is just proof of immaturity.

4 Likes

I’ve been doing and hosting M+ dungeons longer than you, I know how many people come and how fast, lol

you are not getting 9 470s applying for a 5+… even if I do, like “Sackalack” I invite the first people… I don’t wade through applicants for a dungeon that’s basically a heroic.

Why deny people who actually can use some of the gear? That doesn’t strike you as elitist and kind of a dick move?

if you weren’t carried, then you can be expected to know a little something about your class, and people do not go backwards so it’s beyond reasonable to assume you can perform well in dungeons, especially easy dungeons. “earning a place in each new patch” is done by the grueling gearing process, it’s not done by having a resume and references to get into an easy dungeon… if you were a hiring manager you would ask for 3+ years of experience for an entry level job

Make your own group. That will literally solve your problem yet you refuse to.

Also, “I’ve been doing mythic+ longer than you” what? You’ve done like three dungeons. You say elitism ruins the game but that’s a very elitist statement right there.

1 Like

Unless you were explicitly denied for a group and they’ve pointed out that your ilvl or experience was not high enough… you have no clue why you were declined or denied from a group.

Your argument is focused around you… as if you are the reason why you are not getting invited to groups, but it doesn’t even concede to the fact that maybe your item level and experience is not the problem. Maybe someone with a higher item level and experience signed up. Maybe the group wanted more leather wearers or plate wearers to help some one gear up… or maybe they just didn’t like your name. You do not know.

My advice… don’t take this kind of stuff personally. If someone denies you, it’s not them saying “you aren’t good enough” it just is what it is. Don’t label things as an “elitist” attitude if you have no context of why you were denied a group. It’s purely speculation.

2 Likes

Of course. He/she can also heal to further speed up that hosting process. Anyways it’s clearly far easier to type a wall of text than to make your own group and blast through it in 15-20 min. This is coming from someone who has hosted thousands of groups across 10+ characters since the second month of legion, so I can say with 120% certainty that my hosting experience is way more than usalia’s.

Every time that character has started from the bottom hosting their own group with many failures along the way, advancing one key level at a time. Now you expect to join my group and get to the front of the line with zero or next to zero experience because you feel entitled to it ? No way bro. If you consider that “rude”, then there is nothing more rude than wasting the time of 4 other players because of your (likely to be) poor play.

I’ve recently restored another tank character and been hosting groups in the +5-8 range. If I see an applicant come with a sign of ANY worthwhile experience in the dungeon I’m running, then they get the preference. That means if I see a 460 apply with a blank slate, then I will deny them and take a 450 with a +5 timed in the dungeon I am running. Again ilvl means nothing in regards to competence and only blizzard has themselves to blame for creating the free (or near free) powerful gear firehose from things like emissaries, weeklies, assaults, etc.

You are under the mistaken assumption that we, the pug group leaders, are there as a gear providing service to YOU or your friends. You are mistaken. Our only goal is to have a (hopefully) organized and relatively smooth run that times the key. You are part of that plan and your experience comes #1 above all. If you wish to have group leaders that prioritize YOUR needs, then you are free to host groups with friends and/or guildies and/or find an M+ community with like minded people. Do not expect such preferential treatment in the pure pug world, and there is nothing “elitist” about denying you such treatment.

4 Likes

“Knowing your class” is one small part of performance. Knowing the mechanics, knowing when and how to use your class tool kit, and understand the specific responsibilities you have in certain circumstances is much more important, and those things you learn by actually doing the dungeons, not by playing for years and years in unrelated content.

The “grueling gearing process” of world quests and emissaries lol? Gear falls from the sky. Earning your place is done by learning the idiosyncrasies of each dungeon and each affix. You can be the world’s best enhancement shaman in terms of damage output, but if you’re not switching to explosive orbs or interrupting important casts you’re useless. Literally useless.

If I have an entry level job with many applicants of 3+ years of experience, why on Earth would I hire someone with none? The job market in this case would clearly show that my “entry level job” is appealing to experienced workers so they will be getting preference.

4 Likes

Right? Being expected to be a contributing member of the group is so elitist.

Ilvl is irrelevant when you can get raid quality gear for moving a crab vehicle into passing turtles.

IO and achievements indicate what a character has done. True, they can be purchased, but that is also easy to differentiate with a small amount of looking. What better way would you have of assessing whether or not this stranger you know nothing about is going to be good in your +10 Waycrest than seeing that they’ve done +10 Waycrest with the same affixes multiple times?

And what is this fair gamer nonsense? Do you actually think any other players owe you anything? Everyone plays for themselves. I went through the gearing up and the progression process on my own. Why do you think you should get to skip that?

2 Likes