We have used this when two players equally deserving and both needing the item happened. If I had 5 stellar Rogues and one piece to give out, I wouldn’t be opposed to saying “Rogues roll for super elite mega thinger”
To simplify tank gearing my OT and I have even just alternated pieces with tanking priority. We didn’t strictly operate as MT and OT and often switched up to know each other’s job, and this worked okay.
Wouldn’t EPGP with an option to manually distribute gear using loot council work well? This way, you have a reward system, EPGP, in place for the bulk of your raiders, and you could use loot council to gear key players like your tank. (When gear is distributed using the loot council option, the player could still be assigned the appropriate GP for it to prevent “double dipping.”)
Whenever I hear “loot council,” I think of abuse. Yeah, I know it works well for some guilds, but how many are abusing it to gear their officers and friends? I can see people getting strung along for weeks… “we just need to get a few more people geared, then we’ll start getting you some gear.”
That’s a good point, and on the latter of your message another thought comes to mind. As far as tier gear goes, is trying to get the tier bonuses on a rogue per se trump putting other tier pieces on other rogues? Ie should I be getting a rogue a full tier 1 set before moving onto the next? That seems counterintuitive but possibly the better methodology dps / raid prog wise? @warstorm
If one person would have more points than another in a points system, then they’re not equal in the eyes of the (idealised) loot council. One of them must have shown up to more raids, or received less loot previously - the council is aware of this.
The primary reason I generally hear for promoting loot council is that it’s easier/faster/etc
But for loot council to be remotely fair (even if you discount favoritism, nepotism, graft, etc), attendance and loot distribution need to be tracked with precision.
If you’re tracking loot distribution and attendance, you might as well be doing dkp and avoiding the whole corruption problem.
One thing my guild plans on doing for Classic is that we will have “loot council spectators” that rotate into the loot council chat. The idea being non-officers get to see the transparency and reasoning behind the loot council discussions, but they will be unable to post in the channel.
Good idea thanks for your input as well 
In my opinion, “fair” doesn’t really matter. Loot is a means to beating content in WoW, not an end. You give the loot to the person who will increase the strength of your raid the most, be it through threat gain, DPS gain, healing throughput, specific roles needed for a later fight, etc.
You give loot to someone with good attendance not necessarily as a reward; the logic is moreso that they are the most likely to be able to attend the raid next week wearing the gear. If the person with the loot isn’t able to show up to raid, it’s like you didn’t get any loot at all.
DKP works really well for casual / fun raids. It’s what all my guilds used.
However, we had tanks spending DKP on dps plate and priests spending DKP on shadow gear though :). So I can’t imagine a hardcore guild using it.
(edit - I think your idea of an algorithm for assigning loot is a good one. I don’t think it’s technically a “loot council” then, but rather a distinct algorithm-based loot system).
In a guild setting, this is the entire point of a loot system right here.
After seeing possibly a couple thousand pieces of loot, and playing with probably around 100 players in raid I can say that no loot system in existence will make all players satisfied for each piece of gear distributed.
The system is about the progression of the guild, be up front and clear about that imo.
Yea my guild did DKP in classic. We didnt let anyone bid on anything though, it had to be between the people that could use it the best. For example we had a ranged weapon drop that was more suitable for melee dps than hunters so hunters weren’t allowed to bid on it. I remember one hunter who was new to the raid spazzing out over it. Also perditions blade dropped, seeing as i was the only dagger rogue I was the only one allowed to bid despite warriors asking to bid on it too, that was nice.
I hate RNG gearing when it comes to tanking especially, sorta why i don’t like modern wow loot system. Most LC’s i ran or was apart of already considered this, though loyalty to your guild is a huge part of it.
As for dungeons, what I really want back is doing a run knowing that boss XX drops that thing I need. Didn’t drop it, or whatever.
It feels so much better when you zone in on that first raid. I worked for this, and I am prepared! Oh crap, those Lava Destroyers are not impressed…
As for Guild loot systems that is something we could talk about forever. I’ll most likely have lengthy discussions with my officers about it again as we start seriously heading towards Onyxia and Molten Core.
Players need to adopt a mindset that loot is for the good of the guild and the ability to move onwards and upwards. Completing your set is not a priority. It will happen, but that is not the point of a good loot system.
A loot council needs to know exactly why they’re giving loot out. If they don’t, it’ll be a ****-show. Experienced leaders are a good thing either way, but even moreso here.
I’d like to see a DKP/Council hybrid, where only those with DKP can get the items, but the council weighs in on it…but those probably exist already. It’s been far too long since I’ve been apart of that kinda system.
Yeah DKP or EPGP systems combined with Loot Council do not work long term.
To make DKP and EPGP work there are too many caveats about class/role priority and needs of the raid group which are counter to the intent of the systems.
There will be plenty of MC/BWL PuG runs to handle getting that one thing…, I’ll be tanking them rofl.
Did someone say loot council??? All I heard was High IQ
I have never raided with an EPGP system but I have been in guilds that used loot council, DKP and soft reserve loot system. I havent experienced the “corrupt loot council” that people always seem to love to talk about and slam the system for. From the experiences that I have had I really like loot council the most.
I really like loot council because I dont have to worry about biding on items or /rolling for items and feeling like I am competing with other people in my guild. I like that if someone in the raids really needs an item and that item drops they will get the item. I love that loot council will get items that are worth the most to the class/ specs that benefit from it most first. I also like that officers in the guild are able to give me an idea when I will get an item.
For me I have had a lot of trust in the guilds I have been in that used loot council and its always felt fair to me. I have never seen a list of priorities for items but think the officers do come up with some sort of rough list and they have kept track of what items we got so they know what items we would need to get BIS.
In my eyes loot council is too subjective without something measurable. It also rewards more outgoing social players who may not necessarily do more than an introverted player.
I like the idea of an algorithm.
X weeks since loot + Y attendance + Z level of upgrade or something along those lines
*If you watch a video of players downing bosses with consumables, and it looks like a cake walk… assume this is not you… yet.
*If you watch a video of players winning matches in pvp with perfectly timed ability usage… assume this is not you… yet.
It’s important to socialize with the people that you will be guilding/raiding with. Guild leaders that do not talk with the members about loot (or anything else important, such as attendance) will likely seem untrustworthy. This is why loot councils need to be open with their decisions.
For example: In my experience key roles are funneled gear for the objective reason that they will improve raid performance. Especially main tanking, which their defense gear helps healers while higher threat allows dps to do more damage.
When you are in a guild who’s members are your friends, you are aware of their gear status. You should be happy when they receive loot, just as they should be with yours.
TL;DR - In a guild that socializes well, a dkp system is unnecessary. And if you feel no connection to these people you are raiding with you should ask yourself why you are there.
I am sure there are some corrupt loot councils, but I feel like they are far and few between. I think most complaints originate from new raiders not getting gear or understanding how it works. Just seems unlikely to me that 30+ people are just going to sit by and watch a loot council gear up their girlfriend/friends.
You may not understand the reasoning, but it certainly beats the hell out of dkp/epgp. Nothing worse than seeing players pass on upgrades because they want to save up for a certain item, that may or may not even benefit them while raiding.
The best guild I was in used a sort of guild wide loot council. We had class and role channels and would pretty much decide beforehand who was getting what. Officer/class leaders carried a bit more weight, but everyone had a voice.