Honestly haven’t seen many leavers this xpac. Only one was a rogue but i cant blame him. Had a evoker doing 19k overall and lost timer on last boss. Sorry for your bad luck bro.
Sadly any punishment i see could probably be abused so not sure what can be done.
Stacking between the boss and the previous fire patch is too much for a lot of ppl.
Heck I left MY OWN 15 after realizing about 10 minutes in that we weren’t going to time it. The point WAS to time it, and I didn’t feel like struggling. I can get another key. /shrug
No. You don’t get to hold me hostage because you have died 27 times to the same volcanic mechanic.
git gud brother
Is this what it would feel like to be kidnapped?
Personal perspective. If I see that a key isn’t going to time (i.e., stuff like 10+ deaths really early on, multiple full wipes on tyrannical bosses, etc.) I am just not going to stay unless we are already close to the end. It is very unlikely that I will get a piece of loot that is an upgrade from a M+, and if anything, completing that key will basically be a mark on my permanent record that says “this person tried this dungeon and failed it” if I ever queue for the same dungeon again and someone hovers over my name in queue.
Obviously, if the timer depletes and we are a few pulls away from the last boss or last two bosses in the case of Azure Vaults, sure, I’m going to stick around because not doing so would just be crummy of me. But if we are three wipes into the tree boss at the beginning of Al’gethar, and I’m not sure we’re even going to be able to complete the key, let alone time it, I’m just gonna dip. I’m not going to waste my time so some 17k pulling DPS who can’t beat a soft enrage on a +10 don’t feel bad.
what?
What?!?!
I’m not a real human being?
Again ALTS EXIST. My main had a quad digit IO. But like… what does my IO score have to do with being a “real human being” are you mad??? everyone starts somewhere.
This. Nobody leaves a key that’s doing well. If you’re ok with a few wipes and blowing the timer (AKA: completion group) the responsibility is on you to make sure everyone joining has the same goals. Otherwise, people will just assume you meant “standard” when you put the group up as a “standard” group.
Communicate. Don’t hate.
I’m always going for a timed run. If you only want timed, only join timed. Standard is attempting times but might turn into completion.
This isn’t learning. This is normal human beings making mistakes. It wasn’t my key. I was healing and doing fine. We wiped on the boss because the tank died when the dps didn’t soak.
You assume I was preforming poorly and not only that but I was preforming so poorly that the run would’ve been impossible or taken hours. It was one wipe on the third boss. We may not have timed but at most 5-10 minutes longer than timing. We were doing fine. Mistakes happen.
They’re wasting everybody elses time by leaving a finishable dungeon. We’re not wasting their time.
That could be 1/2 way through another key that could help them by that point. Standard = timed. If no one says otherwise, everyone assumes everyone else is on the same page for goals. If completing that AV was worth anything to that person, they would have stayed. Or maybe the nature of the wipe was bad enough that they didn’t believe it was possible to recover. Also valid.
But in every scenario, the onus is on the group maker to ensure everyone has the same goals. That’s why (and one of the bonuses for) the content is premade-only.
No. All keys are done with the implication that its going to be timed. If you want to learn or are just there for loot no matter how long it takes then state that in your lfg description. Otherwise dont expect people to stick around for a painful slog through a dungeon that took twice as long as it should have.
I dont have many issues with people leaving my group unless its clear we’re not timing it. Then i dont really care.
The only time i get annoyed…and this rarely happens…is when someone leaves after one wipe while the key is perfectly timeable. But thats a rarity.
Where are you getting the “I formed the group” from?? I never said that. I was pugged in as a healer. Tank formed the group. Tank died because dps didn’t soak. Dps left. Forcing us to abandon. Wasting everyones times, consumables, and the group makers key.
I never suggested there isn’t valid reason to quit a key. But randomly leaving is a bit much. Especially without a word. I’ve had to leave keys before if they went over or it seemed impossible. One time I was pugging and the dps lead invited a tank who just did not have the ilvl to be doing a +10 and was dying almost instantly. So after 4 wipes on first boss we all agreed to call it quits and apologized to the key person for losing level on it.
All these exaggerated times confused me. At no point, not a single time this has happened where someone randomly leaves without a word would it have taken 2 hours. Not even the longest dungeon. Either the key is impossible after wiping multiple times on the same boss and we all call it quits. Or they randomly leave after 1 or 2 wipes (not on the same encounter). where the delay of timing it would be like 5-10 minutes or so.
It wasn’t my group. I’ve only had someone leave once in a group I was running as I usually run with a bunch of friends and we still finished it with 4 people iirc (timed really bad). But we all agreed to do that. So maybe it was a learning group for most folks? I personally assume a +10 is beyond the learning area. And going in I always assume the goal is to time but complete as secondary and only quit if it’s impossible which usually means 2 or 3 deaths on the same fight. And folks tend to agree to leave. In the very least don’t leave without saying anything. It’s not hard to say “I don’t think we can do this so I’m gonna leave”.
Oh we do this.
Problem with this is I’d rather people learn and silently ignoring them isn’t going to teach anything. If they get a blizzard penalty they might think “okay I can leave but is it worth the punishment” same thing in randomn dungeons and bgs. People still leave of course but it causes them to think twice rather than doing it and not even knowing they’re going to get ignored. Also if they never talk it’s harder to ignore them.
IO is a made up thing and it’s nature can be changed. Maybe an additional “negative IO” for failures I suppose to give context.
Not that bad. It was our second wipe. First was on trash that was overpulled. Second on boss when dps didn’t do the soak mechanic. (including the person who left). We told them how to do the mechanic went in for a second attempt and they left. We probably wouldn’t have timed it but it would’ve been fairly close.
Are we even playing the same game? Score doesn’t make you better at the game or allow you to do more. It just shows off what you’ve done.
Since IO is all anyone cares about though an IO penalty seems fair.
It’s not holding people hostage. Don’t sign up for something you don’t intend to finish. A vote to abandon feature if it becomes impossible would allow it to still be quit. But if everyone else thinks it’s possible then yeah you shouldn’t be able to leave without consequences. You aren’t held hostage in random bgs or dungeons. You can leave. But there are consequences.
How am I supposed to know? If I am a recruiter, how am I to know if someone is a quitter or not? if I am a pug how do I have any control over who the group leader invites and how do they know if they’re a quiter? There is no quiter or negative io tracker (yet).
Who cares if it’s “abused” not losing a key isn’t the end of the world. I don 't think people should lose key levels against their will anyways.
I’ve seen it… maybe 4 or 5 times in 100 runs? give or take a few runs. So roughly 1 in 20 runs having a leaver. Not incredibly frequent no. And I am not counting where everyone agrees to abandon. Only counting when people leave without a word leaving the rest to try and 4 man or more liklely abandon it. But it’s relative rarity doesn’t mean it’s not incredibly disruptive and shouldn’t be punished to discourage leaving so freely.
Idk how it can be abused. In the very least a 1 hour debuff that makes it so they can’t use the custom group finder or random dungeons or raids. And or a reduction in IO or a negative IO score.
Did you at least communicate that? Because that’s a big part of my frustration is silent leaving. If you were going for a time and you couldn’t time it and everyone like “ok this isn’t why we’re here”
This hyperbole proves you have no idea what’s going on or the context of the situation. There was no “27 deaths” there was like 11 or 12 total deaths. (for everyone not individually). Also I should clarify. Shouldn’t be able to leave without punishment. So you can still physically leave. But you get a deserter debuff and maybe some form of IO penalty.
But I think 99% of people will give up if they died 27 times. Maybe if the death counter hits a certain number than you can leave without the vote as well.
It’s not hostage because you signed up. That’s like saying you’re being held hostage on a roller coaster because you can’t just stand up and walk away. You signed up. You should stay for the ride. Within reaosn.
This is fair and acceptable.
But people do leave groups that have some very mild hiccups.
Completion means they’re not even trying to time it. Standard is trying to time it but completion worst case scenario. And timer is only care about beating the timer. There is a reason there is 3 categories.
Standards doesn’t mean timer, otherwise timer wouldn’t need to exist.
Telling ME to communicate when someone left WITHOUT A WORD. They didn’t say they wanted to time it or were going to bounce. They didn’t say they would leave on mild hiccups. We can’t read minds.
So just screw over everyone else for their own self gain? got it.
No standard = standard. Timed = timed.
It’s not just about your own self interest. This is a multiplayer game. You can’t go into a pug and play with others and only care about yourself. When other peoples gameplay and enjoyment is depending on you.
Not doing a simple mechanic that could easily just be done on the second attempt?
Sounds like your a frequent quitter and just trying to defend the antisocial behavior. Multiplayer games and selfishness aren’t compatible.
I have no idea if people are going to preform flawlessly or not. I can’t see the future. I can only control my own actions and do my best. Even then while I usually preform well and avoid most bad I still mess up sometimes. 99.99% of humans make mistakes even on things that are routine. The DPS who left made a mistake. They’re part of the reason for the wipe by ignoring the mechanic.
Y’all act like the person who left is a perfect little angel who is god tier surrounded by noobs and are suffering the noobs and thus justified. They were top dps by a margin but they failed the mechanic that caused us to wipe on the boss. Along with the other dps.
And the leaver I had to deal with before was a dh doing the lowest dps and kept standing in bad and dying and blaming the tank (even though the tank was doing fine and no one else was dying). And then just left after they died for like the 10th time on trash. We tried to 4 man it but were struggling to much and agreed to call it quits.
All keys (unless set to complete) has the GOAL of being timed. If it’s only times or quits there is a setting for that.
It’s not about “no matter how long it takes” I will leave if it is going to be impossible or take hours. But taking an extra 10 minutes with minor hurdles is not the same.
IO has rules. Its rules is that it represents experience. You can’t lose experience.
You’d have to completely redefine how IO works to even make IO loss a thing.
Yeah that’s pretty bad.
Yeah that’s leaver material right there.
Its easy. If someone leaves without finishing the M, make them unable to enter any M on any difficulty for the rest of the week. Make it a vote to end the M if the group agrees.
I can’t wait to get you in my key, then just go do the groceries with a pecker bird on my keyboard resetting the afk timer.
I hope you enjoy starring at that dungeon entrance.
We’d vote you out 
Nope. We’d be 3 guildies doing it.
I’m sorry you never figured out that hostage holding mechanics are worse than someone leaving your key because you’re failing it hardcore.
Apparently not. Once you push high enough, then you’ll come to realize that some people enjoy the challenge and it’s not just about gear.
There’s already people pushing 20s. Gear is no longer being upgraded.
Umm…
That right there is your textbook hostage situation.
Take the time to find out. You don’t have to accept the first 10 people that apply. Or even the first 100.
Not losing a key level = more people willing to leave since there isn’t any punishment for it now…are you even talking about the same thing any more or you trying to move goalposts just to be correct?
then i wouldnt be in your key. So i have no issue with you holding your guildies hostage.