Punish Key leavers

[Sôsari-dalaran]

@Bearz-hellscream

Those “tools” and IOnas a whole is absolutely useless. So how is a group leader supposed to pick the best people for a run?

A tool a only as good as the person who uses it. You can look purely at score to as deeply as run history. If someone wanted to, they can look at another persons run history or their best timed run and see who was in the group. You can tell if they were carried.

You will probably ask, who the hell is going to go through all of that effort? I do and everyone I push keys with does too.

@Bearz-hellscream

With people being able to buy runs anyone can have high IO and a solid m+ history in general.

Anyone can buy KSM, but you can’t really buy high score. People also wont be buying 10 runs on each dungeon to build up a history either. Even if they did, you can still tell.

@Teksuo-grizzly-hills

how do you even reach m+15 without knowing basic stuff

They get carried. Now imagine if keys don’t deplete and they can continuously bring other unsuspecting victims until a group is strong enough to carry them even further.

[Avelpally-frostmourne]

@Kittsuera-lothar

key holder, shouldn’t be running keys ever, got it

They have already explained it to you. They can’t understand it for you

@Sôsari-dalaran

You are still ignoring that the key holder in many of these cases are the ones who shouldn’t be in that key level to begin with. They didn’t earn it, they got full on carried

@Lyrose-sargeras

Punish tanks and dpsers who abuse healers

What that got a like? Wow healers really are a protected species around here.
Ridiculous

@Bearz-hellscream

With uncapped valor anyone can have high gear.
With people being able to buy runs anyone can have high IO and a solid m+ history in general.

Those “tools” and IOnas a whole is absolutely useless. So how is a group leader supposed to pick the best people for a run?

They can’t

Look at my history and your history and tell me which one is more likely to be better at keys? You saying u spent that many millions on carries that I did every key level from low to 25 in carries?

[Bearz-hellscream]

You’re history may be “better” than mine but that doesn’t mean my history was earned easily. I don’t know if your attacking me personally but whatever. I’ve never bought a single carry. I’ve earned my IO. Proudly.

But again there lies the problem. You can’t tell who bought there gear/IO until you run them through a dungeon and they trash the key and leave.

[Inachu-greymane]

@Prismriver-faerlina

If we die 20 times before we hit first boss.

I’m leaving.

Not sorry.

Also will leave if not at first boss and it is 2 hours later.

[Avelpally-frostmourne]

Good for you.

@Bearz-hellscream

But again there lies the problem. You can’t tell who bought there gear/IO until you run them through a dungeon and they trash the key and leave

Are you saying there is a realistic chance I bought my io then?

Because if you don’t think that is a realistic thing looking at my history then yes you absolutely can pick people you are 99.9% sure didn’t purchase their io.

[Cäpslöck-proudmoore]

@Bearz-hellscream

You can’t tell who bought there gear/IO until you run them through a dungeon and they trash the key and leave.

No, there are ways to tell before you start the key. Just because you don’t seem to know what they are doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

[Adilith-frostmourne]

@Avelpally-frostmourne

Are you saying there is a realistic chance I bought my io then?

how much you paid for it?

Can I borrow some gold?

[Avelpally-frostmourne]

Man I would have to first own a house then remortgage it to get enough gold to buy that many carries haha

[Adilith-frostmourne]

who needs a house when you have IO in-game

[Avelpally-frostmourne]

Can you imagine how much it would cost to buy anywhere from 10-30 keys over 20 per week for the last few months? My god

Although with the amount of failed or over timeed ones I guess I would get a discount lol

[Adilith-frostmourne]

how much are 20s going for now?

[Avelpally-frostmourne]

No clue. Probably too much though lol. Also not a lot of people around that can carry 24s and up

[Kylana-argent-dawn]

I personally like FF14’s Disband vote system, where the party has to agree to disband, then no debuff. Otherwise, yeah, after a leave or 2, prevent the re-queueing. Emergencies happen and one does have to account for that.

[Pyri-shadowsong]

@Kittsuera-lothar

maybe the “social contract” will make leaving against the tos.

that’ll be interesting. competent players will stop pugging completely.

[Nowk-stormrage]

Dont get me wrong, key leavers sucks etc etc but people can have pretty good reasons to leave a key such as a rl issue, not be willing to make extra work cause others are lacking or some dude/party is acting like an a*hole.

[Adilith-frostmourne]

@Kittsuera-lothar

maybe the “social contract” will make leaving against the tos. instead of making it happen be a non issue.

it could be or it could also mean we can report player not helping the group by not carrying their own weight

[Bearz-hellscream]

Please inform me of the magic ways.

[Zothlar-argent-dawn (Zothlar)]

@Bearz-hellscream

With people being able to buy runs anyone can have high IO

Yes.

@Bearz-hellscream

and a solid m+ history in general.

No, unless they’re dumping a fantastic amount of gold to get carried week after week.

@Bearz-hellscream

So how is a group leader supposed to pick the best people for a run?

By talking to the people you invite and finding out what their goal is. If they are looking for an IO increase only, they are less likely to stay if things go badly. If they are looking for a piece of gear or valor, they are more likely to stay. But that has limits. If the group is so incompetent that someone thinks it will be faster to pay the sunk cost and find another group from scratch, they will leave anyway.

[Zothlar-argent-dawn (Zothlar)]

@Bearz-hellscream

Please inform me of the magic ways

Somebody has already alluded to one, but I’ll spell it out for you. If someone has 10 timed runs of +15, 1 in each dungeon, all on the same day with the same group of players, there is a really high chance that they paid for it.

If someone has 40 runs of +15, spread out across multiple weeks with multiple groups, they probably pugged that on their own. If it’s the same group for multiple weeks, that is probably a regular group that runs together and the person you’re looking at may just be pugging here and there.

This is common sense type stuff. What would you think it looks like on IO when somebody purchases carries and what would you think it looks like when somebody does it on their own? It takes just a little thought and imagination to find this answer on your own.

[Warzug-mankrik]

@Pyri-shadowsong

that’ll be interesting. competent players will stop pugging completely

Indeed, it will simply become far too risky to trust your account to the random/unpredictable strangers in LFG… some of which fall under the whiny/crybaby category - so probably also “trigger-happy” on the report button at the slighest perceived offense to their feeeeewwings

Most intelligent/competent players will avoid LFG if such a rule (leaving an M+ pug being punishable) ever went into effect, leaving only bad/underperforming players in the pool to bicker amongst themselves and get hard-stuck on like +11 keys