PTR Feral Druid Rebirth


(Liger) #21

Wait, resto druids on ptr can cast in cat form? what about bear form? Anyone around to test this?

Also, are balance druids able to cast rebirth in bear or cat form?

Or are guardians able to cast in cat form?


(Perifery) #22

Gotta love that blizz just keeps taking any somewhat functional utility feral druids have. I wouldn’t be shocked if these out of touch devs take away stealth for some assinizing reason.


(Reshyk) #23

That is… an amazing oversight. I wonder if Balance is similar?

This whole thing feels half baked, which is odd given how simple a change it looks on paper. It feels like the sort of thing that wasn’t given more than a minute’s thought.

Which I mean, it’s PTR so obviously things are going half-baked, but it doesn’t give me a lot of faith that we have anyone thinking on Feral changes from the viewpoint of a Feral main. To make a legal analogy, I don’t think we have a “zealous advocate.”


#25

UGGGGGH I went to hit “EDIT” but deleted my entire post. There should be an option that says “are you sure you want to delete your post?” And I can’t re-edit that post or post again b/c I have to wait for replies.


(Liger) #26

Test Results:
All druid specs that choose “Balance Affinity” can cast rebirth in moonkin form. However, there are hardly any good reasons for feral druids or guardian druids to be in moonkin form.

Feral druids:

  • 1:Cannot cast rebirth in cat form. This is feral’s most used form.
  • 2:Requires 30 rage to cast rebirth in bear form and then forces them out of bear form to cast rebirth. This also includes “Guardian Affinity”. This is dangerous because this affinity is used for situational events to tank if a tank is down. While waiting for the brez timer to appear, this person needs to hold all aggro and live as long as they can. Brez’ing the tank in bear form could potentially kill this player.

Balance Druids

  • 1:Can cast rebirth in moonkin form. This is moonkin’s most used form.
  • 2:Cannot cast rebirth in cat form. Moonkins use cat form for speed and moving out of mechanics sometimes. There is a reason why they would be in cat form and need to potentially rebirth someone…
  • 3:Requires 30 rage to cast rebirth in bear form and then forces them out of bear form to cast rebirth. This also includes “Guardian Affinity”. This is dangerous because this affinity is used for situational events to tank if a tank is down. While waiting for the brez timer to appear, this person needs to hold all aggro and live as long as they can. Brez’ing the tank in bear form could potentially kill this player.

Restoration Druids

  • 1:Can cast rebirth in humanoid form, which is the form they spend most of their time in.
  • 2: Cannot cast rebirth in cat form. Restoration druids use cat form for speed and moving out of mechanics sometimes. There is a reason why they would be in cat form and need to potentially rebirth someone.
  • 3:Requires 30 rage to cast rebirth in bear form and then forces them out of bear form to cast rebirth. This also includes “Guardian Affinity”. This is dangerous because this affinity is used for situational events to tank if a tank is down. While waiting for the brez timer to appear, this person needs to hold all aggro and live as long as they can. Brez’ing the tank in bear form could potentially kill this player.

Guardian Druids

  • 1:Can INSTANTLY cast rebirth in bear form. Almost no reason why guardians shouldn’t be able to cast in bear form. It is dangerous for them to lose aggro or die if not in bear form.
  • 2:Cannot cast rebirth in cat form. No reason to be in cat form besides running back from a wipe or something.

Concerns

  • Guardian Affinity’s purpose.
    • Is it for damage reduction or for the “in case of emergency tanking”?
    • I thought druids were a hybrid class that could help out depending on situations during fights. Are hybrids only purpose is the flexibility to change between any role before a fight?
    • If one chooses Guardian Affinity, why not allow them to cast moonfire? It’s especially weird for Balance druids who have Guardian Affinity. They are apparently masters in moonfire casting.
    • For players picking Guardian Affinity, they should be allowed to cast rebirth in bear form.
    • Regardless of the new rebirth system, rebirth should be like it is on live. There’s no reason to change it. No one was complaining about it, were they?
  • Ferals
    • Can we please be able to cast rebirth in cat form? It’s really weird to be the only druid spec to not be able to cast rebirth in their most used form.

#27

U clearly don’t pvp


(Liger) #28

Not sure of your point with that post directed to Sorelai. It isn’t helping our discussion. Please expand your thoughts about PvP and Rebirth @Calamitrix. Thanks!


(Sorelai) #29

You’re right I don’t but I continually have to be nerfed due to PVP.


(Liger) #30

Soooooo….

thoughts on the results or any other conerns/findings?


#31

“Soothe, Remove Corruption, Moonfire, and Rebirth are no longer castable in Cat or Bear form by default.” - PTR notes from April 13, 2019.

RC and Moonfire were already ‘not castable’ in cat form by default as of 8.1.5, so this line of dev notes makes it seem like whoever wrote it got erroneous (or incomplete) information, or the notes were relayed from someone who doesn’t know the nuances of Feral spec. It requires a special talent to prevent an automatic un-shift from Moonfire (Lunar Inspiration), and RC will auto-unshift the Druid from cat form no matter what in 8.1.5.

I am hopeful this entire change to Rebirth was an error, due to the confusing wording of the notes (which may indicate that this was an early iteration of PTR Feral), but am also worried that this was meant to be a trade for getting RC as Feral spec, and thus this change may already be written in stone.

With a new responsibility and expectation in 8.2 to remove additional curses and poisons, and having to reshift into cat form after casting Rebirth, 8.2 design is potentially sapping more of our DPS GCDs than old designs. I personally prefer the MoC final talent playstyle in M+ where I have very little “downtime” waiting for energy, so there will be some adjustment required anyway.

Perhaps in the long run, RC in cat form will pay off, if my hunch about it being a “trade” is true, but I’d still like an explanation straight from the devs on why a longstanding passive capability has been ripped from this specific spec, and not its cousin specs.


(Martei) #32

One day they will stop ignoring feral druids and actually talk to us. Can’t believe they haven’t at least given a reason for this. Just going to ignore it and wait for people to stop complaining the same thing they did with the druid class mount that druid no longer have access to when every new xpac comes out


(Reshyk) #33

That’s where I am with this too. I haven’t seen a single person who knows about this change who went, “oh yeah that makes sense.” Everyone I talk to either doesn’t know about it or thinks it’s ridiculous. But I haven’t seen any indication that the people who matter are even paying attention. We can stay in our thread here and yell in circles for hours but none of it will mean anything if Blizzard doesn’t pay attention.

I would love to see an actual response from Blizzard regarding the reasoning for this change. At this point we’ve somewhat exhausted the things to say on this topic since there isn’t really a ton of substance to work with. We need something, anything, from Blizzard at this point that we can respond to.


(Arég) #34

I just hope they realize this change is going to make pugging mythic+ even more difficult for ferals because just to brez we’re going to have to stop damage for at least 4 seconds between GCDs and the cast time, over twice the time of any other class’s or spec’s brez.


#35

just convinced some other druid on ptr to jump off dazarlor to test this with me. Guardian has it in their Guardian Adept Tooltip, “Moonfire, Soothe, Remove Corruption, and Rebirth now usable in bear form.”

Feline Adept reads, " Sooothe and Remove Corruption are now usable in cat form"

just wanted to confirm it. I’m hoping there is more to be added to feline adept passive.


(Josefine) #36

It would make no sense whatsoever for it to be nerfed for wpvp. In any small scale fight (<5v5), we’re bouncing in and out of form so much to heal/cc/kite it doesn’t really matter. And unless everyone is tunneling the druid, there’s no pretty much no stopping us from deercharging behind a tree or something to rebirth someone.

Or if it’s a large fight, we’re probably running to the back to drop combat so we can respec moonkin lol.


#37

there is a game play issue for ferals needing to be able to cast rebirth in cat form - in order to use rebirth in humanoid form, ferals have to totally remove themselves from combat and move away from any damage to use this. If they don’t, they will very often die because they are just too fragile in humanoid form (or at least that has been my experience).


(Reshyk) #38

Well you’d want to move out of combat for the sake of the person being res’d so they don’t instantly die but you don’t become any more fragile. The only buffs from Cat Form are a movement speed buff and a auto-attack damage buff. So you won’t be any more squishy in humanoid form, you can even still use Survival Instincts.

(As an aside, back in Legion Moonkins were actually tankier than cats due to Bladed Feathers. It was a strange time.)

It’s Bear Form you don’t want to shift out of while getting smacked since Bear Form provides a massive armor and stamina buff.


#39

I raided on a feral and I could brez someone in cat form and not die but I almost always die in human form - unless they changed something in this regard since MoP I would have to say ferals are still squisher in humanoid. In any case, it isn’t an issue for me I just won’t brez anyone if it stays that way.


(Nuisense) #40

This is where it’s going. And this will cause a further divide.

Last night we were doing CoS. The non tank 'lock died, the 2 other druids died and the 2 dk tanks didn’t want to BRes. So I got the call to BRes. I ran to the side and did my thing. But I only just managed to not die to the nasty that came for me while I was casting BRes in form. If there had been another 2 seconds added to my casting attempt, I’d have been dead.


(Martei) #41

Its pretty bad that Feral druids are basically considered a class on its own could you imagine if all classes had the same abilities but say the cost of using the ability was different for each spec. Sinster strike for outlaw 40 energy subtley 30 and assassin 20. I know they probably dont all have that ability this is an example. For whatever reason Feral druids are not even equal to the other specs of the druid class. For whatever reason Feral has its own set of rules its no wonder feral struggles to find a place it may as well not be druid even at this point with how blizz is handling this