8141 posts in the last thread before it was locked.
THE PHOENIX SHALL RISE FROM THE ASHES AND CONSUME THE EVIL THAT HAS AFFLICTED THIS GAME!
DO NOT GIVE IN!
Changing your mind on something isn't dishonest, at least to an adult. Maybe to a child where everything is black and white.
This is a backhanded insult and reflects poorly on you, not the person you're criticizing. Moving on.
I don't mind that they changed their mind. That they did it and didn't discuss it with their customers is bothersome. Anyone in this business would know that there are strong opinions on this subject.
I realize they stated they put this in secretly to get "raw and honest" feedback. But that suggests to me that they thought being open and honest with their customer base would elicit a dishonest response. I also find that very bothersome.
What bothers me the most, however, and caused me to unsub both my accounts (time runs up 4/27 but I've moved on to other games at this point) is that they nerfed the workaround as opposed to fixing the problem. IMHO this is the liposuction solution to a weight problem (fix the symptom not the problem) and it punishes the community that pointed it out.
Honestly, coming from Everquest my first thought was that they would track your ilvl and keep a recent MAX value - not allowing you to remove equipment to bypass the issue. But then I thought, Blizzard wouldn't do that. And then they did....
I waited a couple days to think it over but I kept coming to the same conclusion. Perhaps the years playing for companies that treated their customers like a problem instead of an asset has made me overly sensitive to these sort of responses, but to me that was a akin to a slap in the face.
You can assert I'm overreacting and you're entitled to that opinion. After considering it for a few days I think it's time to move on. I'm going back to a game that has an official structure for receiving and reviewing input from their customers and have a history of listening and working closely with them.
Wanted to bring this post along from the remains of the old thread.
I agree that the implementation of this was weird, if not dishonest. It didn't reflect stated goals, was a poor experiment by any real standards, and this was really, really weird timing to launch something so controversial to counteract a "problem" that happens every expansion, is 100% predictable, and so on.
So there's that.
In terms of fixing the "problem" of mob tagging, this does not address group tagging, faction tagging, and CRZ issues, which are occurring at every gear level and have been since implementation, but are only magnified when players are tunneled into specific areas (Broken Shore, and anywhere with AP world quests).
I have already voted against item level scaling mobs by canceling my subs. the only thing that will get this removed from the game is if they lose enough subs. Its insulting for blizzard to claim they are interested in peoples views on things. the ptr forums over the years prove beyond doubt that blizzard ignores anything they don't want to hear
the ptr forums over the years prove beyond doubt that blizzard ignores anything they don't want to hear
(Bold was my emphasis)
That's a little cynical. In development, sometimes you have rolling balls where things are too far along to change before 'mandatory' launch.
THAT SAID, I agree that there is a ton of good feedback in the PTR that often yields no change, and then things are live for months, and we're left with posts saying; "well, we can't fix this NOW because it'll affect the live balance and raid competition and so on...."
And that's why transparency on the PTR is so important. For good testing. That's why you don't look for "organic" feedback on something so complex as WoW...on a feature that will be, undoubtedly, controversial. That you've stated in the past is bad design, and you wouldn't do. In the middle of an expansion. Without telling anybody.
04/03/2017 10:37 AMPosted by OrnyxI've upped the cap on this thread. Thanks again for all the feedback on this - please use this thread going forward.
Okay, but still makes me wonder why the part 3 got deleted.
04/03/2017 10:37 AMPosted by OrnyxI've upped the cap on this thread. Thanks again for all the feedback on this - please use this thread going forward.
An 8000 comment thread, three days of discontent, and a second thread that needs its cap upped.
Can we get some serious feedback? You say thanks for the feedback, but its a two way street; We need to know what is (or isn't) happening.
04/03/2017 10:49 AMPosted by LucyfaithfulI have already voted against item level scaling mobs by canceling my subs. the only thing that will get this removed from the game is if they lose enough subs. Its insulting for blizzard to claim they are interested in peoples views on things. the ptr forums over the years prove beyond doubt that blizzard ignores anything they don't want to hear
Don't expect change unless there's actually something wrong with the system.
04/03/2017 10:56 AMPosted by EleanÔr04/03/2017 10:37 AMPosted by OrnyxI've upped the cap on this thread. Thanks again for all the feedback on this - please use this thread going forward.
An 8000 comment thread, three days of discontent, and a second thread that needs its cap upped.
Can we get some serious feedback? You say thanks for the feedback, but its a two way street; We need to know what is (or isn't) happening.
Don't forget they did delete part 3 that got made after part 2 got capped. They've been active this morning and that's what makes me salty.
04/03/2017 10:37 AMPosted by OrnyxI've upped the cap on this thread. Thanks again for all the feedback on this - please use this thread going forward.
LIL' GOAT TO THE RESCUE!
Thank you, Ornyx!
Ok peoples, let's take this opportunity to really show our class! Ignore the trolls( literally, if you must) and keep it to topic!
Let the games begin!
04/03/2017 10:48 AMPosted by SkylyChanging your mind on something isn't dishonest, at least to an adult. Maybe to a child where everything is black and white.
There is a Pacific-Ocean sized difference between me saying, "I'll have the steak. No wait, changed my mind, I'll go with the Lasagna"
and me saying,
"I won't drink and drive," and then going out and doing so.
There is a Pacific-Ocean sized difference between blizzard saying, "No we won't institute ilvl scaling," and them then instituting ilvl scaling.
Changing your mind on something isn't dishonest, at least to an adult. Maybe to a child where everything is black and white.
There is a Pacific-Ocean sized difference between me saying, "I'll have the steak. No wait, changed my mind, I'll go with the Lasagna"
and me saying,
"I won't drink and drive," and then going out and doing so.
There is a Pacific-Ocean sized difference between blizzard saying, "No we won't institute ilvl scaling," and them then instituting ilvl scaling.
For the record, that was Rox's trolling, back-handed insult quote, not mine.
And that was my point in my response to Rox, as well.
04/03/2017 11:02 AMPosted by Skylythat was Rox's trolling, back-handed insult quote, not mine.
Long ago put them on ignore. Sorry. Mea Culpa.
04/03/2017 11:02 AMPosted by SkylyFor the record, that was Rox's trolling, back-handed insult quote, not mine.
And that was my point in my response to Rox, as well.
And what are you expecting to gain from repeatedly calling Blizzard liars? It's in the past. Your own personal hurt feeling are your own. This won't go anywhere until something constructive comes.
Looking into that as we speak. We are just getting in, so trying to get things back in order.04/03/2017 10:54 AMPosted by Lohannah04/03/2017 10:37 AMPosted by OrnyxI've upped the cap on this thread. Thanks again for all the feedback on this - please use this thread going forward.
Okay, but still makes me wonder why the part 3 got deleted.
I do still see the thread that was deleted, and I've taken its feedback into account.
04/03/2017 11:06 AMPosted by OrnyxLooking into that as we speak. We are just getting in, so trying to get things back in order.04/03/2017 10:54 AMPosted by Lohannah...
Okay, but still makes me wonder why the part 3 got deleted.
I do still see the thread that was deleted, and I've taken its feedback into account.
Thank you for the transparency, Space Goat. It is appreciated.
I will just put my general opinion of this fiasco into this thread, and wait to hear back from Blizzard as to what their plan is moving forward, so I can make my final decision and move forward. The anxiety for not knowing if this is going to remain this expansion is driving me nuts.
ilvl scaling is a major shift to the basic design that's been in this game for 13 years, what is in my opinion a drastic change that should be introduced with a new xpac. Pre xpac Patch 8.x is where they should have started it and tuned it for the next xpac. Or even the first 7.0 patch. Then we all could decide before spending the money on an xpac and putting months of effort in gearing our characters whether this is a feature we want, it may not have been intentional (!) but this feels like a bait and switch tactic that I will not tolerate! I can't deny ilvl scaling may be the only option for the current design goals of the dev team. But it's a route that was chosen, and I can't help but feel it's been in the works for some time.
I have loved this game, I have had a steady sub since 2004 without ever regretting it. Even when my playtime was at a minimal and I could have justified unsubbing for a few weeks, I didn't because I wanted to support this game, and I liked knowing I had something to fall back on when I had downtime, and always having something for me to do (some might disagree on that point).
Telling my wife that I will most likely be quitting wow caused her to tear up. She's been with me for 10 years and started playing shortly after we got together. She is a what I would call an extremely casual player, I usually carry her through the dungeon and raid content so she can get her quests done often with the help of some wonderful guild mates.
But anyway. This is a game breaker for me. Not only a game breaker, but a breaker of any trust that I have had for Blizzard as a whole. I've revealed a lot more than I would like on a public forum. But I'm here on the only character I've really cared about during my time in wow in an attempt to be as open and honest as I can to explain why I will no longer sub to WoW if ilvl scaling stays in this xpac pre 8.x.
ilvl scaling is a major shift to the basic design that's been in this game for 13 years, what is in my opinion a drastic change that should be introduced with a new xpac. Pre xpac Patch 8.x is where they should have started it and tuned it for the next xpac. Or even the first 7.0 patch. Then we all could decide before spending the money on an xpac and putting months of effort in gearing our characters whether this is a feature we want, it may not have been intentional (!) but this feels like a bait and switch tactic that I will not tolerate! I can't deny ilvl scaling may be the only option for the current design goals of the dev team. But it's a route that was chosen, and I can't help but feel it's been in the works for some time.
I have loved this game, I have had a steady sub since 2004 without ever regretting it. Even when my playtime was at a minimal and I could have justified unsubbing for a few weeks, I didn't because I wanted to support this game, and I liked knowing I had something to fall back on when I had downtime, and always having something for me to do (some might disagree on that point).
Telling my wife that I will most likely be quitting wow caused her to tear up. She's been with me for 10 years and started playing shortly after we got together. She is a what I would call an extremely casual player, I usually carry her through the dungeon and raid content so she can get her quests done often with the help of some wonderful guild mates.
But anyway. This is a game breaker for me. Not only a game breaker, but a breaker of any trust that I have had for Blizzard as a whole. I've revealed a lot more than I would like on a public forum. But I'm here on the only character I've really cared about during my time in wow in an attempt to be as open and honest as I can to explain why I will no longer sub to WoW if ilvl scaling stays in this xpac pre 8.x.
Maybe because people made TWO part 2's that both had tons of comments in them?04/03/2017 10:58 AMPosted by LohannahDon't forget they did delete part 3 that got made after part 2 got capped. They've been active this morning and that's what makes me salty.
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20753716095
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20753846152
this thread was created yesterday, but there was already a part 2 created 5 days ago, so this thread IS PART 3.
04/03/2017 11:01 AMPosted by PharsalusThere is a Pacific-Ocean sized difference between blizzard saying, "No we won't institute ilvl scaling," and them then instituting ilvl scaling.
All I've ever seen was a video of Ion discussing problems with linearly scaling mobs based on ilvl. Which isn't the system they put in place. So where did they outright say they would never apply any ilvl scaling "solution"*?
*I don't think it solved anything anyways and the perceived problem seemed poitnless, so don't see why they wasted their time
A fix to two issues I read in the post:
1) More time getting to where you want to go than actually killing the thing: Make getting there faster? Maybe improved travel, sounds good, less delays more fun, good idea.
2) Time spent on looting monsters in places compared to killing them and moving on: Improve loot functions, not just mail you crap, improve it. Make it easier to share loot, give to someone there with you, perhaps an interface to send to their name, which you'd just click rather than go find them.
1) More time getting to where you want to go than actually killing the thing: Make getting there faster? Maybe improved travel, sounds good, less delays more fun, good idea.
2) Time spent on looting monsters in places compared to killing them and moving on: Improve loot functions, not just mail you crap, improve it. Make it easier to share loot, give to someone there with you, perhaps an interface to send to their name, which you'd just click rather than go find them.
04/03/2017 11:10 AMPosted by Trallara04/03/2017 11:01 AMPosted by PharsalusThere is a Pacific-Ocean sized difference between blizzard saying, "No we won't institute ilvl scaling," and them then instituting ilvl scaling.
All I've ever seen was a video of Ion discussing problems with linearly scaling mobs based on ilvl. Which isn't the system they put in place. So where did they outright say they would never apply any ilvl scaling "solution"*?
*I don't think it solved anything anyways and the perceived problem seemed poitnless, so don't see why they wasted their time
Exactly, we can purposely misunderstand them all we want, but it's clear to most that the scaling Ion was talking about isn't the scaling we got. And the reasoning behind the scaling we got and why they didn't think they'd need it in the past was given.