PSA: Creatures now scale with item level #2

04/10/2017 05:02 PMPosted by Vynara
04/10/2017 04:58 PMPosted by Lohannah
...
Yup, tons of people voiced their opinions, but a lot have already had subs run out/given up on posting. Because blizzard won't respond at all.

With all the prepaid time I have on my account I have a feeling I will be the last one standing before too long. Assuming I do not get so pissed I stop logging in even to read the forums.

I've already stopped logging into the game, the forums are just up while I alt tab FF14 now. After my sub is up I MAY use a trial account to talk with guildies, and nothing more. Really they're all that hold me back.
04/10/2017 05:13 PMPosted by Lohannah
04/10/2017 05:02 PMPosted by Vynara
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With all the prepaid time I have on my account I have a feeling I will be the last one standing before too long. Assuming I do not get so pissed I stop logging in even to read the forums.

I've already stopped logging into the game, the forums are just up while I alt tab FF14 now. After my sub is up I MAY use a trial account to talk with guildies, and nothing more. Really they're all that hold me back.


I don't even have that. My guild is all real life family. THey are all gone. I am the last one standing.
04/10/2017 05:19 PMPosted by Vynara
04/10/2017 05:13 PMPosted by Lohannah
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I've already stopped logging into the game, the forums are just up while I alt tab FF14 now. After my sub is up I MAY use a trial account to talk with guildies, and nothing more. Really they're all that hold me back.


I don't even have that. My guild is all real life family. THey are all gone. I am the last one standing.


Same.
RP and leveling guild, both factions...gone.
I'll be here until the lights go out.
04/10/2017 03:37 PMPosted by Lohannah
Really? STILL no blue post? Blizz, you've had all day to respond, you've had weeks to respond. They know this thread exists, they're choosing to ignore it, which is honestly, infuriating. Because they know once everyone's subs end that dislike this change, the voice that they were right will be unanimous.


the only people that'll be left in the game, are those in favor of their "vision", and/or those who've adapted to it. to Blizz, this is a win-win scenario.

04/10/2017 03:38 PMPosted by Vynara
My shammy got shelved this expansion. She has since the beginning of BC been either resto or elemental. SHe was just too painful to level this time around.


when did they remove the Totem bar? the ability to have specific totems set, so with a push of a button, all 4 totems go down? when they removed that, plus most of their abilities, that's when I lost my desire to play a Shammy. :|
This has been fully enabled on live realms BTW. Mobs are increasing their HP at least 25% over the course of your Ilvl rise, possibly higher if they continue scaling beyond my 897
04/10/2017 01:39 PMPosted by Raiyyn
Says who? What trend? What other games? Name one single game with a life-span anywhere close to, and a playerbase anywhere close to, World of Warcraft that has implemented this type of scaling and had negative effects such as you're referring to.


So you are suggesting that because this game has been around as long and has as many subs as it does that it is immune to poor game design choices? This makes zero sense. Are you telling me that we can learn nothing from the decisions another developer makes with their IP unless they have WoW's numbers? That is preposterous on every level.

Just as an example, in the past Blizz has made concerted efforts to observe a game genre, learn the mistakes of less successful companies, then enter into that genre with their own product. Blizz rarely innovates and makes a new genre. They take what other have done, learn from their mistakes and make something more popular and easier to enter.

Blizz should continue learning from the mistakes of other, less popular mmos
04/10/2017 04:29 PMPosted by Amyiss
Well we're already down to the same people posting, without much new input.

So this debate is pretty done, with flight the pretty, effective distraction.

Thanks for trying tho.


Don't worry. The regular trolls will be back to keep it on the main page.
04/10/2017 05:55 PMPosted by Tresska
So you are suggesting that because this game has been around as long and has as many subs as it does that it is immune to poor game design choices?

No, that isn't what I'm saying. The stealthing in of this scaling absolutely, without a doubt WAS a poor design decision. The realized that fairly quickly and changed it to something that is completely within normal limits of what should happen while we're traversing the world...some modicum of "danger" lurking about without making us feel as though our time is wasted as we become more powerful.

The difference today, right now if you log in, is barely noticeable...you said exactly that yourself.
04/10/2017 05:55 PMPosted by Tresska
This makes zero sense.

As it should since that's not what I said. I asked what information you had gathered to back up your claims that adding scaling...scaling that is nearly undetectable at that..."kills the game and kills subscriptions". I also stated that using MMOs that really had no substantial subscriber base that lasted beyond a few months doesn't count. It doesn't count because simply adding a nearly undetectable feature wouldn't have had that much impact alone.
04/10/2017 05:55 PMPosted by Tresska
Are you telling me that we can learn nothing from the decisions another developer makes with their IP unless they have WoW's numbers? That is preposterous on every level.

No, that is also not what I said. I asked you for some kind of information...as already described.

One single feature...that is barely even noticeable...cannot, on it's own with nothing else wrong, "kill" a game regardless of it's numbers. So where, exactly, is this "lesson learned" supposed to be coming from? THAT is what I asked. And, yes, it would be nice to have some example of a game that wasn't already dead in the water when it hit shelves upon initial launch.

WoW is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. It never was and never will be. There will always be things we don't like in the game. And feedback is a wonderful thing. But there comes a time when that feedback is no longer actually saying anything. It becomes hyperbole and accusations and "prophesies" that never come to fruition.
04/10/2017 05:55 PMPosted by Tresska
Just as an example, in the past Blizz has made concerted efforts to observe a game genre, learn the mistakes of less successful companies, then enter into that genre with their own product. Blizz rarely innovates and makes a new genre. They take what other have done, learn from their mistakes and make something more popular and easier to enter.

Blizz should continue learning from the mistakes of other, less popular mmos

No one said they shouldn't. I'm just still waiting for you to give an example of ANY MMO that implemented a nearly undetectable feature that "died" due to that undetectable feature. And the fact that they actively do this...and always have...along with my inability to actually find any information regarding item level scaling, or zone scaling, or mob scaling having "killed a game and killed it's subscriber numbers" leads me to believe that they probably did just that in this very situation.

They over did it...and recognized that the stealthing in of the change was part of the problem...then scaled it back to a point where IT IS BARELY NOTICEABLE. A fact that YOU have acknowledged. Continued crying to have something that, in the long run over the course of expansions to come, may actually HELP the game is what makes zero sense at all. Where is your support for the claim that this barely noticeable change will "kill" anything?

All you're doing is making unsubstantiated claims at this point and instilling fear of something that is likely to never happen (total world scaling of all zones, past, present, and future) at some magnitude where anything we do will make us feel as though we should never move beyond quest greens.

That is not learning lessons or taking mistakes of others and doing better. It is nothing more than fear mongering.
04/10/2017 06:24 PMPosted by Bewford
04/10/2017 04:29 PMPosted by Amyiss
Well we're already down to the same people posting, without much new input.

So this debate is pretty done, with flight the pretty, effective distraction.

Thanks for trying tho.


Don't worry. The regular trolls will be back to keep it on the main page.


to give Blizz the "signal" to shut the thread down, and start banning people. And so it ends...not with a bang or even a whimper...but a mere squeak. :/

never thought WoW would end like this honestly. I always wanted to see it go out in a blaze of glory...not end up like a steaming pile of *expletive* a dog ate, then *expletive* back out afterwards, that you walked in, then scrapped off the side of a curb. :|
The stealthing in of this scaling absolutely, without a doubt WAS a poor design decision.


I agree with you too on this point.
Welp, another night over and they have yet to pretend this exists, here's hoping they'll eventually care. If not, my sub is over in a week, guess I'll just give up then.
04/10/2017 07:09 PMPosted by Lohannah
Welp, another night over and they have yet to pretend this exists, here's hoping they'll eventually care. If not, my sub is over in a week, guess I'll just give up then.


I keep hoping and checking but to no avail :(
The realized that fairly quickly


No, they didn't realize it quickly; they quickly had it pointed out to them that we could see it happening when we equipped and un-equipped gear. They also had it pointed out that they had scaled on such a curve that low-level gear was more effective than high-level gear. THAT is what they fixed. By making your scaling include gear you are not even wearing.

Power progression is an essential part of the game; Ion admits that. Power progression is, you get better gear, you put it on, you get stronger, you kill things faster.

I-level scaling negates that. You get better gear, you put it on, you hypothetically get stronger...but you don't kill things faster. He outright admitted that, too. "We don't want players killing things at ridiculous rates." He didn't mention what 'ridiculous' was, but he did mention that people were having trouble tagging mobs because they were dying fast.

Well hell yeah, of course they're dying fast! You cram 20 people into 50 square yards and you watch how fast everything dies! This isn't a gear scaling issue, this is a blasted CRZ issue! And guess what, they didn't announce that change either! They snuck it in. People suddenly were saying, 'Where's all these others coming from? Why's it so crowded? Why so many different servers?' Oh yeah, we changed our philosophy about enabling CRZ in current zones.

So now, rather than shut off CRZ to cope with excessive tagging issues, they decide to stealth-fix how fast we're able to kill stuff. Better to cripple power-progression and simultaneously extend 'content' and playing time than to meddle with CRZ, eh?
04/10/2017 05:28 PMPosted by Regnyl
when did they remove the Totem bar? the ability to have specific totems set, so with a push of a button, all 4 totems go down? when they removed that, plus most of their abilities, that's when I lost my desire to play a Shammy. :|


Gosh trying to remember. I know it was gone in WoD but my brain says it was taken out in MoP but I could be wrong on that.
04/10/2017 07:44 PMPosted by Venovel
The realized that fairly quickly


No, they didn't realize it quickly; they quickly had it pointed out to them that we could see it happening when we equipped and un-equipped gear. They also had it pointed out that they had scaled on such a curve that low-level gear was more effective than high-level gear. THAT is what they fixed. By making your scaling include gear you are not even wearing.

Power progression is an essential part of the game; Ion admits that. Power progression is, you get better gear, you put it on, you get stronger, you kill things faster.

I-level scaling negates that. You get better gear, you put it on, you hypothetically get stronger...but you don't kill things faster. He outright admitted that, too. "We don't want players killing things at ridiculous rates." He didn't mention what 'ridiculous' was, but he did mention that people were having trouble tagging mobs because they were dying fast.

Well hell yeah, of course they're dying fast! You cram 20 people into 50 square yards and you watch how fast everything dies! This isn't a gear scaling issue, this is a blasted CRZ issue! And guess what, they didn't announce that change either! They snuck it in. People suddenly were saying, 'Where's all these others coming from? Why's it so crowded? Why so many different servers?' Oh yeah, we changed our philosophy about enabling CRZ in current zones.

So now, rather than shut off CRZ to cope with excessive tagging issues, they decide to stealth-fix how fast we're able to kill stuff. Better to cripple power-progression and simultaneously extend 'content' and playing time than to meddle with CRZ, eh?


10/10
04/10/2017 04:38 PMPosted by Fizzlemizz
04/10/2017 04:36 PMPosted by Merdrin
Yes you can call me naive but life is a lot simpler if you just believe people on things that don't really matter rather than going around mistrusting everyone.


Yeah, why waste all that time learning when ingnorance is instantaneous.


what the heck does learning have to do with deciding to trust people.
Day 13 of vendoring my bracers *almost everytime* I leave Dalaran. Can't get enough of this great system Blizz. I personally love when I'm fighting the rare elites by myself in my prot spec in the nearly always empty Broken Shore and it's a boring button mash for 8+ minutes straight because I forget to sell my bracers and the boss has like 20 million more HP then usual. Great system.
04/10/2017 08:51 PMPosted by Sarda
Day 13 of vendoring my bracers *almost everytime* I leave Dalaran. Can't get enough of this great system Blizz. I personally love when I'm fighting the rare elites by myself in my prot spec in the nearly always empty Broken Shore and it's a boring button mash for 8+ minutes straight because I forget to sell my bracers and the boss has like 20 million more HP then usual. Great system.


They patched that. Anything in the buyback tab is now counted in your total Ilvl for the purpose of scaling
04/10/2017 09:04 PMPosted by Tresska
04/10/2017 08:51 PMPosted by Sarda
Day 13 of vendoring my bracers *almost everytime* I leave Dalaran. Can't get enough of this great system Blizz. I personally love when I'm fighting the rare elites by myself in my prot spec in the nearly always empty Broken Shore and it's a boring button mash for 8+ minutes straight because I forget to sell my bracers and the boss has like 20 million more HP then usual. Great system.


They patched that. Anything in the buyback tab is now counted in your total Ilvl for the purpose of scaling

The speed with which they patched that work around was a pretty big indicator to me that removing iLvL scaling was never on the table no matter what Ion said.
Wonder if putting them in void storage would work?