All we need is damage. Right now we are the opposite of prot paladins. I noticed my paladin despite being 5 item levels higher, takes a lot more damage due to lower armor. Prot warriors do take a fair bit less damage and have way better active mitigation.
The issue is, we put out probably 1/2 the damage is a prot paladin, especially with the AS legendary. So how do we fix it?
Revenge. Add a short cool down, make it generate a small amount of rage and maybe buff the damage a little? Better yet, letâs make it synergize like OP and MS. Make revenge buff your next shield slam and have shield slam cleave (maybe at reduced damage).
Honestly, removing rage from revenge would greatly reduce rage starving. Then the new updates to our leggos, we would be perfectly viable in mythic+ again.
Donât get me wrong, warrior can still be last in damage, but the problem is, because we are so far behind, our tankiness does not outweigh our lack of damage.
In a meta where we spend a lot of time actively running away from mobs, warrior desperately needs a snap aggro ability.
Ravager is great⌠until you have to move.
Revenge is okay but you have to be right up in their face for it to hit (I know Iâm not the only one that has tried to use it on a pack while kiting and hitting none of them lol), plus it delays you next SB/IP and we have no way of generating resources while at range unlike most other tanks.
Cycling through targets and using heroic throw mostly gets the job done, but itâs so dang clunky. Iâm not asking for it to bounce like avengerâs shield or glaive, but⌠that would sure be nice, eh?
Unfortunately it seems Blizzardâs way to âfixâ this is just throw a new legendary effect at us. Granted, the new Reprisal will certainly smooth things over and allow us to start a pull with mitigation up and a free revenge in our pocket, but then what? Weâre right back at square one when we have to start kiting again.
Maybe they should just do something really boring like buff the crap out of deep wounds. At they very least they should reduce the cooldown on challenging shout. 4 minutes is an insult.
Prot paladin does absurd damage, that is their niche. That damage is irrelevant in higher keys where you spend even more time kiting then other tanks because you are so squishy.
Warriors need more secondary stats to increase uptime on shield block. Damage will come.
I donât have threat issues at all, I do run with a rogue so I get tricks on every pull, but warrior is tanky AF at the start of pulls so I generate all the threat I need, then call for trees/slows/etc. if/when I need to kite.
In low keys, nothing is dangerous, so paladin shines because of itâs outrageous dps. But that dps gets hit hard when they spend prolonged time kiting in high keys because they are squishy AF.
A tank that can stand there, keep mobbs grouped up, and allow maximized dps from dps CDâs is going to add more damage to the party then one that needs to kite constantly.
Look at guardian for example, pushing keys into the +21-23 range now, and their dps is bad. But they are super tanky and invulnerable during incarn which allows huge pulls and maximized dps.
Warriors notoriously lack early on in expacs before secondary stat bloat⌠they also notoriously become better towards the end of the expac.
But letâs think about it for a second. Warrior is the best tank at dealing with physical damage which makes up the majority of damage tanks take. When shield block is active, they block every hit they take which reduces the damage. The problem lies when they donât have shield block up - they become very vulnerable.
Now, at the start of the expac, haste is extremely low, but by the end of the expac, haste is significantly higher because ilvls have increased and in turn, secondary stats (haste specificaly in this case) have increased.
More haste = more uptime on shield block and more spells casted = more dps.
I agree, it seems as if prot starts off bad but ends up S tier by the third patch.
Last time I remember prot being good at the beginning of an expansion is when we had just gotten ignore pain, or as other tanks called it, âignore mechanicsâ
I donât know what is considered âgoodâ tank damage right now, but I know in keys I can easily do 2k+ overall which doesnât seem BAD.
First, I think a lot of players just compare their class to the current top meta classes. VDH just checks all the boxes for the current content. They kite well and have crazy self heal. That doesnât mean other classes are lacking, it means they have a lot of advantages.
Second, Iâm having trouble identifying your reasoning for prot war not being viable. You say damage would make them viable, but you also say they could still be the lowest damage tanks.
Is threat your main issue? I personally do not have trouble with threat and can try to help you there
Because prot warriors are not taken in anything above 15 typically. Their dps is about 1/2 of what a prot pally can do and dps is important in high keys.
So I just asked my buddy who does higher than 15âs (since I do not) what normal tank damage was and he said âat least 2k.â I have no trouble breaking 2k, so I dont think the problem is that warriors are not viable, I think its more that pugs are a slave to meta. Canât fix that with balance unfortunately, because people will always min/max and the extra 0.00001% will be INSURMOUNTABLEY OP!!!
Really tho, if you arenât FOTM and want to push keys higher than 15 you will need a pre-made. When people group with strangers they want as many advantages as possible.
And, fwiw, my prot paladin buddy gets rejected to about as many m+ groups as I do.
I love how you quote the first half of the sentence which is then decscribed by the second half. Just stick to classic where everything is LFR difficulty.
What is the warrior niche supposed to be? Taking the least damage isnât a niche when we also heal the least, if that works out to still needing just as much external healing as other tanks.
If we mitigate more but heal less and that works out to needing the same external healing, cool, that seems balanced. But if weâre merely average defensively and also the worst tank for damage, seriously, what is our niche?
Healing more than other tanks while taking the least amount of damage would be overpowered.
What is druid niche?
What is DK niche?
What is BM niche?
What is VDH niche?
Not sure what youâre getting at with your question but in 15 keys you can stand infront of mobs and laugh at them, so unless youâre pushing higher keys, itâs irrelevant anyways.
Right, healing the most while taking the least would obviously be overpowered, but there are ranks between âmostâ and âleastâ.
But sure, healing the least while taking the least is not necessarily problematic; thatâs not my objection. My point is that depending on exactly how those numbers balance out, it may not be a strength either.
The DK niche is that they require less healing than other tanks; often the healer can just throw HoTs on the DK and otherwise not worry about them. The BM niche is that they have the smoothest damage intake. The VDH niche is being a jack-of-all-trades, with good damage, good mobility, a SB-like mitigation button, and a Death Strike-like heal. And the Paladin niche, of course, is doing high damage.
Iâm less sure what to say about a Guardian niche, but partly thatâs because I donât know the spec very well. I know they can get pretty extreme levels of mitigation; last week I put Blessing of Sacrifice on one while he was tanking a +15 Fortified pack and used Shield of Vengeance to soak the sacrifice damage, and yet the tank took so little damage that my shield expired before popping.
These are all very broad strokes, but even at such a coarse level, you can see clear and specific strengths for other tank specs.
The warrior niche used to be high damage and a low need for external healing. Now we do the least damage, and - to my knowledge, feel free to correct me if Iâm mistaken - we donât require any less healing than other tanks; our total damage taken is the lowest, but our net damage taken is merely average. Weâre average at some stuff and below-average at other stuff. What are we actually good at?
Above you said that stat scaling was going to solve it, but it seems hard to believe that 10% more Shield Block uptime will substantially change anything, especially since other tanks scale just fine with stats too.
Yeah prot pallies do wayyyy more damage than other tanks. That doesnât make it that much better OR worse really.
I can hit 7-9k dps on aoe and 2.5k ST and that isnât bad. Just because one is higher than the other doesnât mean the lower one isnât viable.
Prot pallies need more babysitting from healers. Most groups im in the healer can dps more. Iâm just struggling to see where you are coming up with âWarriors arenât viable because pallies do more damage.â
Pallies do the most damage, yet people arenât beating the doors down trying to get paladins to tank their high keys either. DH and Druid are the only 2 people are drooling over