xD I’m actually dying reading this
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Look, I started the season as tank and eventually mained Fury. But the reason I made the choice that switch was because Thane was the only clear option. I adore Colossus but when I test ran it (at the time) doing 6-8’s with ease as Thane, Colossus felt like intentionally gimping myself and to be frank, was fing dangerous (That rage starvation was a shock to the system let me tell you).
But once I geared to around 620 thought Colossus would be fine due to the increase in Stam. But no point now, because if Colossus is already this behind Thane for rage gen, I don’t even want to imagine what it would be like with these changes.
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Yep i said same thing in other prot warrior thread. guess it got buried over holidays. kinda iwsh with changes they’re making they would have pinned at least one post for collected feedback, but something tells me they’re not very interested in reading feedback about prot warrior changes and they’re just gonna happen regardless since they didn’t really ask for feedback (and it was cleared when making changes person didn’t really understand prot warrior play either to make such callus changes to address a problem the wrong way).
For rage generation to be nerfed, they don’t need to gut our rotation or talents to do so. Just tweak some math here and there. Such as strategist staying 30% but free shield slam giving less rage or something as opposed to making us have more empty globals and worse damage without compensation. Same with other hanges.
Also, hate how most of this thread is off topic nonsense. again we need a focused pinned topic blizzard.
11 Likes
Prot warrior has traditionally been one of the highest apm specs in the game dating all the way back to vanilla and it should remain so. If you want a slower rotation play something else.
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Issue is paladins are rushing in thinking we warriors are trying to get them nerfed so they come in and try and derail the warrior feedback. We don’t want paladins nerfed. Honestly the better thing would be to have the tanks like monks looked at and brought up to the level of the top tanks. The tank shortage will only be hurt worse by nerfing warriors into the ground and right now the suggested changes are terrible in design.
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You might not, but people were literally calling for paladins to get nerfed. Don’t pretend like they didn’t exist otherwise I wouldn’t be getting involved. People misrepresenting data, calling paladin mitigation the best, and attempting to throw us under the bus. If Warriors want damage buffs then I’m all for it, they could use it. BM needs a massive overhaul. Rage gen change should be reversed. The only times I joined a Warrior focused thread was when someone decided to mention Paladins.
Issue is your derailing every thread you join. Thats not good for the discussions being held. I understand you want to not be nerfed. No one wants to be nerfed and thats what we warriors are fighting for right now. So let us post our threads without derailing the conversation. If you want to make a post to talk about no paladin nerfs do so but dont come into a warriors post to derail it to talk about paladins.
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Takes two to tango. I don’t see you calling out the one didn’t know what KSM was. Why would I see someone make up wild representation numbers and not call it out. People will see that and take it word for word.
I can post where ever I want. If you don’t want me to pop in Warrior threads then people should stop talking about Paladins, with misinformation, in said Warrior threads.
Fine then we will start reproting you ever time you derail the posts.
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Go ahead my guy. Threats don’t work on me. I’m not breaking ToS.
Yes you are its not a threat its a promise because you are coming to a post that isnt about you to derail it on purpose and that is reportable enjoy the 3 days.
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You’re derailing this right now by going back and forth with me over absolutely nothing. Fact is I don’t say anything unless someone brings up paladins. I don’t pop up randomly out of no where for no reason. My responding is directly linked to what someone else says and isn’t breaking ToS.
Go ahead and report. Calling others to action to report me is against ToS.
And now that we are ignoring the troll paladin we can talk about the topic at hand. Right now warrior rage is completely almost unplayable on the PTB and with the changes it stops you from using Colossus as a tank as you take a rage starved tank and completely destroy it by having even more rage starvation.
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I did some very brief testing easier this week. Over you gain enough haste the Mountain Thane rotation doesn’t feel as awful as I initially assumed. That being said my test was extremely brief.
It didn’t account for the loss of up time of defensive CDs that were reduced via Anger Management like Shield Wall, or the damage output from uptime on Avatar.
Colossus felt like maintaining Ignore Pain would be impossible with these changes.
Overall not a fan from my initial checks, but I still need to do more in depth test to get a more solidified experience.
The first pass of these changes feels bad, and certainly needs to be looked at again.
How much haste is enough haste to feel adequate?
We lose a significant amount of uptime on defensive CDs and personal damage from the 33% cut in tactician proc chance.
I personally had 14.3k Haste before Into the Fray. Again this is very brief and preliminary testing, so this could be not enough haste.
I mentioned that above.
That’s good to hear, Im currently at 16,700 haste without ItF.
I don’t know how much more we will need to feel like we are okay again, so I was just wondering if you had some insight.
I agree, I just think that it’s important enough to basically echo anytime it needs to be said 
Are you saying as a salty jealous Blood Knight or are you being objective here?
The issue is that the warrior class is completely designed AROUND having crap tons of rage and the way our gameplay loops work, we NEED said rage to be able to tank effectively.
Tanking effectively requires using threat generating abilities AND keeping our mitigation going so our HP isn’t jumping all over the place like other tanks (including, arguably, paladin and you as well). Guardian Druids and Prot Warriors have always been “the tankiest” of the tanks --meaning they dont go down easily and their biggest strength is manageable HP bars. When I’m on my Paladin doing keys, I constantly feel my butt clenching with how WILDLY their HP swings back and forth and it’s freakin stressful. My warrior can JUST HANDLE the big pipi pulls and that is what makes him fun to play.
All this change does is make us have to choose between the survivability we’ve become accustomed to OR generating threat. That should NOT EVER have to be what we’re choosing from when tanking, especially in keys or we’re just dumpstered.
From the testing I’ve done so far (2 mythic 10 keys in BiS gear), I feel gimped AF and slowed down. I am not “feeling” the effects of being geared out, which is having lots of rage to work with. I feel, instead, I’m having to rely on gimmicky OP trinkets that I might never see drop during my key climb (one of htem is ‘extremely rare’ and comes from Gallywix…so…yah)
If Blizz isn’t happy with us constantly dumping rage into IP; then give IP a cooldown or dont make it “stackable” (I guess? I am still BAFFLED as to why the devs think is a problem)
Nerfing regen of rage just negatively impacts too many other abilities and is a really hack-job way of trying to address what YOU THINK is an issue (but really isn’t?) Zero warrior tanks have complained that we have too much rage. This sounds more like you want to nerf us b/c you are incapable of (without a lot of work) instead; bringing up the other tanks to be on the same playing field.
The change you wnat to see reuires a complete rework of the class. This isnt apprporiate to do mid-expansion. If you want to redesign warrior, fine. But you do this during the lead-up to a new expansion.
Next xpac, if they want to design around the idea that all tanks should have to choose between mitigation and dmg/threat–then what you need to do instead is
- Grant all tanks a baseline level of armor/resist to smooth out incoming dmg. Getting hit in the face without a mitigator up AS A TANK should never be as deadly as it is on a dps. Period.
- Greatly increase the threat coefficient of our “gather up” abilities in our rotation so we dont have to focus our resources on building threat and can focus on using resources to mitigate
- Bring back a ranged interrupt for all tanks that are missing one (Gag order for warrior, Moonfire/Solarbeam for Guardian)
- Chill the hell out with the tankbusters. I’m not even joking here. Some of the bosses (even in the current system are SPAMMING tank busters) and not all tanks can deal with that WITHOUT requring externals. This sucks for pugging.
And then yo had the NERVE to add MORE to the upcoming dungeon rotation…when having a few dugneons that dont have these should be a “reward” for being at end of season when you can pick the “easiest” key for the season and just do 8 of those for vault.
Then, we can meet your goal of choosing to use our resources on mitigating dmg (as we should …as tanks) instead of being forced to pick between building threat OR mitigating.
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I’m not entirely sure how defensively we become stronger while getting 30s of SW / 30% IP while:
- We need to pick between SB or IP and we are already the worst tank vs bleeds/magic damage when Spell Block is not up for magic one, while powerful against physical attacks as we can now keep SB and spam IP, if you take that, we will NOT be
- We don’t generate extra healing from Indomitable as we will spend LESS rage
- We won’t get faster Avatars or SW as we will spend LESS rage
- If we not getting enough Avatars, we won’t get enough Thunderblast for 8% DR for example
- If we have MUCH fewer shield slam procs now, we won’t get extra Thunderblasta and extra rage and have gaps of nothingness between casts
- Less Avatars, LESS damage
- Less Avatars, means fewer Thunderclaps from UF, LESS damage, and fewer DS if specced into Thunderlord
- Less Shield procs, LESS damage
- If we have less rage then we have MUCH fewer outbursts, which is basically LESS damage and fewer extra IPs on top
- If you look at talents like BV, we deal less damage, which means less added to IP, LESS defensiveness
- As I will be rage-starved, I won’t get much Revenge, which means LESS damage
There are probably more statements where the changes end with LESS/FEWER, and they are stating we are in a good place. But seeing that they are keeping Ravager talents still in the game and ignoring any feedback from it I doubt anything will be done.
We posted many topics and showed them how to fix and make this class cooler to play and more friendly in terms of RAIDS or M+ when someone say ‘Let’s get warrior in!’. But let’s try again and again.
If things stay as they are:
- Give us filler that is impactful (resetting SS for example)
- Make Disrupting Shout baseline or Challenging Shout baseline, one needs to be baseline, another a talent
- Make Ravager talents a grip that pulls mobs to combat the Shield Charge in picks
- Intervene changed into old 20% DR
- Intimidating Shout/Piercing Howl should be easily pickable and not fight against MUST_HAVE talents as they are needed for us to be good tanks. I should be picking tools to play the fight not talents to survive the fight in the first place
- BSV just change it or put it higher so people can pick it, it wont be cheat death or immune as other tanks have but at least a safe net that we can pick always or make it an immune for 3sec and let it stay where it is
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All of the protection warrior changes need to be reverted wholesale.
There is no compromise with the current changes. They are, collectively and individually, awful and do nothing other than encourage all but the most stubborn of players to continue playing the spec.
The talent alterations actively hurt protection by increasing the amount of required talent points in the class tree for little increased benefit. We have to path awkwardly down a side of the tree to get a fundamental throughput talent, that is also now a two point talent.
Impenetrable Wall is now a straight dead talent if no compensation for the removal of additional rage generation is added. It now just straight up a worse option for most, if not all, content compared to Defender’s Aegis. You would need roughly 9 shield slams a minute to generate enough CDR from I.W. match the baseline innate CDR granted by Defender’s Aegis, not to mention the fact that you get an additional charge of Shield Wall for flexibility. (It’s almost like they want to require us to take this talent now because of all the ridiculous tank busters being added)
6 Likes