Prot Warrior 11.1 PTR Feedback

Most of the big tank busters past in the 13 and up range will start to pop Golden Val’kyr if you only use small CDs like Eye of Tyr or Ardent Defender. Now, these are enough if you have 27% mastery and have full active mitigation up from Avenger’s Shield + Word of Glory before the tank buster.

If you are running dry on Holy Power and unable to pre-wog, then you need to double up on AD+Eye at times if your Golden Gift is already proc’d.

When I said there are times, I meant it’s very situational.

The reason I stack up Eye + Ardent defender sometimes is because one the cheat death procs, you lose the 20% DR. By stacking up you keep your HP high and get full duration of DR.

I apologize if you already said it, as I have to wade through a lot of comments that aren’t Prot Warrior feedback (poor moderation if you ask me), but how is the damage feeling post-buffs and how is the rage gen in single target feeling? Thanks!

1 Like

I don’t consider Golden Val and block buffs are real def cds:

  • you don’t realy on GV to survive any tank burster under any real situation as it does nothing until you drop below 30% hp.
  • AV+WoG block buff combo can be applied at any moment and has 60+% up time (depending on tanks). It’s too high to called a cd other than a maintaines buff.

Eye is a situational def cd. Not all pallies run it nowadays and yes, that is the only def cd you may overlap it with AD if you have to insist on using it. But even 15+ pallies still don’t run Eye.

Very nice post my friend! Lots of great points. Blizz pls read this and this thread!!! <3

2 Likes

wow this really became a prot pally thing on a unwanted and unnecessary warrior nerf.

As a note to the pally fans saying the utility has been there since SL, not correct, i used to tank prot pally back in WotLK and pally was already high utility back then. That the utility was improved/increased and damage went nuts in TWW does not make it correct, much like giving VDH as much CC through the 2x sigils in DF was also not correct, what it did, was screwed tanking for those who enjoy tanking other tanks, and want to push keys. To me this is not a correct solution or approach, it is rather a design flaw! All tanks should be viable and each should come with respective tradeoffs, that is not the case now, and has not been for quite a while, since blizzard is trying to equalize everything. Sure, let every race, be every spec, no matter how ridiculous or how contradictory it is to the lore of the game… i digress.

So how about this, of the tanks i mentioned, aside from this season (cause to me TWW S1 is complete garbage) ive reached ksh on 3 or 4 tanks most seasons, on bdk, vdh, gdruid, prot warrior and bm monk, i dont enjoy or care a whole lot for pally, that said i do play it on and off seasonally, and this season, it is stupidly strong compared to other tanks. Utility, is second to none and damage is through the roof! you can do unmatched pulls more so, doing it ranged (maybe druid thru incarn can pull similar) which allows unique advantage over all other tanks, anyone recall bdk late SL? In addition to most powerful cds of any tank, ranged silence in a season of spam casters (constant range silence thru shield and shield procs), cleanse for poisons, sac, bubbles for other players, topped off with monumental damage, you have to be deranged to debate that if there is any nerfing to be done, pally needs it, not warrior. Hence the meta!
But, BUT, let me emphasize;

NO TANK SHOULD BE NERFED!!!

TWW M+ is failing due to the disastrous decision of the blizz team, to make paper tanks. If you argue for this paper tank concept, you are a troll! There is not one tank or healer, in game or online (aside maybe from blizz forums) that like this season!
Because, this philosophy not only screwed tanks, but also heals as their lives were made miserable not just by the constant unstoppable damage that goes out due to mobs spam casting, but also the multitude of aoes, curses and other crap that is unstoppable short of discord coordinated groups. Pugs, still 90% of DPS coming to an 8-12 key will not decurse or remove posion (forget below that! Sub 8 dps dont know utility or defensives, chances are decurse/cleanse etc are not even hotkeyed).
I can count on one hand (I main heal MW this season), how many times someone helped decurse in say GB, which says a lot, because healing thru the worst mobs along with tanks getting absolutely trashed is disproportionally challenging and miserable! Just yesterday i was so impressed because this real nice druid kept taking off that nasty curse between boss 2 and 3… so impressed…
So really, I wholeheartedly oppose nerfing tanks or healers for that matter! This is not a healer lobby btw.

With that out of the way, no tank, pally included should be nerfed. warrior should only be buffed without the rage nerf, BDK deathbringer should not be nerfed, seriously why the hell was it? middle of the pack damage, easiest tank to insta topple… where is the BM Monk rework??? they are complete trash!?!
There is so much work needed on multiple tanks, take a look at the BDK setup?! Really? How about spending the time on the neglected and insanely clunky specs? There are at least 2 of them, maybe 3, guess druid is getting a rework.

Anyways, i tire of this nonsense, tanks need buffs, baseline survive, streamline for those that need it (DK& Monk), give warrior due to laughable utility, give warrior massive survive and damage! For those who played back when warrior was 100% main tank, and Pally OT, those know warrior as it is the OG tank, true to its heritage, warrior needs to be the tank that can take and deal the hardest hit! every other tank has an abundance of tools (maybe short of BM monk) and can make up value thru their other utilities, mobility etc.

2 Likes

Do you not see the complete disconnect in this statement? The argument was that Prot Paladins have had the same utilities since Shadowlands. You come in and argue that it’s wrong because we had high utilities in Wrath? What?

If anything our utilities have been nerfed since SL because AS used to give Holy Power.

So basically your entire first two paragraph is wrong and based on a strawman argument.

Here’s the thing. No one is debating that warriors need a nerf.

The biggest issue is this is a knee jerk reaction nerf that is completely unwarranted to warriors for no reason. 0 people were complaining about too much warrior rage and nerfing most of our generation by 50% or more is just foolish. You’re not fixing the issue to kill a class in both defense and offense to the ground. The worst part is they do this and claim they are listening to feedback but refuse to talk to warriors in anyway.

I’m not main tanking on my warrior I have tank heroic queen a few times while our main tank was out of town and honestly warrior right now is just fun. Playing on the PTB warrior is not fun. Last I checked this is a video game and should be fun. That’d why I’m saying Blizzard needs to fire the dev in charge of this change as they clearly don’t understand what a game is and are just milking the company for a free paycheck.

Prove me wrong Blizzard come in here and earn our trust back by discussing the changes at least the hunter rep got them to change the pets for MM time for the warrior rep to earn their pay as well.

2 Likes

Revert Strategist nerf. Your whole bloody tier set is about SS.
Put a bit more rage into the abilities.
Work on our NON-EXISTENT utilities, for raid and m+. It’s fun to check ‘Utility’ per tank class and only see BS/silly CS, as the rest is marginal/not worth taking.

You have time to make this happen, and let us still have FUN (isn’t your goal for everyone to have fun?) while playing our class. The TWW is already a first expansion since vanilla that I HAD to change my class to a DK, guess why?

1 Like
  • Protection
    • Liberation of Undermine set bonus has been updated:
      • Luck of the Draw! duration increased to 12 seconds (was 10 seconds).
      • Shield Charge cooldown reduction increased to 12 seconds (was 6 seconds).
      • Fixed an issue causing Luck of the Draw! to incorrectly modify Shield Slam’s critical strike chance.

Is that IT? Really Blizzard you can do much better.

Also, did you fix how this procs? Barely procs at all for us…

Thank you all for your feedback! It’s valuable and heard.

Protection Warrior requires a very high APM to play currently, and we feel that the APM requirement is too high. High APM, especially from frequently pressing abilities that are off the GCD like Shield Block and Ignore Pain, can be uncomfortable or even painful for some players.

One of the culprits in driving APM up is high burst Rage generation which feeds into dumping excess Rage into Ignore Pain. This is what has driven many of the changes we’ve made, cutting down on burst Rage generation and moving more of it into steady sources so you should always have enough Rage for mitigation and your rotation, without frequently dumping excess into off-GCD abilities.

The other major culprit is the frequency of Shield Slam resets via Devastator and Strategist. Not only is Shield Slam the primary source of Rage generation, Shield Slam is also the highest priority ability for Protection Warriors. The more time that Shield Slam is available, the less time you have to use procs like Revenge! and Sudden Death or spend excess Rage on Revenge. The previous 30% reset rate makes Shield Slam more prominent in the rotation than we’re happy with and leads to other procs stacking up and Rage accumulating while the Warrior is trying to keep up with their Shield Slam resets. This also puts more pressure on off-GCD abilities to serve as Rage dumps, as opposed to abilities like Revenge. We feel that reducing Shield Slam’s prominence in the rotation will allow for Revenge and other abilities to fill the rotation and serve to consume excess Rage.

We’re monitoring Protection’s performance, especially the tuning of Ignore Pain and total damage. The Rage income changes affect other talents like Anger Management, and we’re working to keep all aspects of Protection competitive following these changes.

Thanks again for the many helpful feedback posts here.

12 Likes

Please do this in the havoc feedback thread

7 Likes

You want to solve rage and rage scaling, get rid of rage from damage taken. My favorite iteration of prot was the era it was gone for a couple years.

It will always have infinite scaling issues. Pull big go big is way to go because that’s how ti scales. Need more rage to spam, just pull bigger. We always scale so well the harder the content. You can try to curb this by nerfing rage generation from our actual generators but at end of day you may just skew balance of rage generation when we’re not getting our faces kicked in and still find yourself unable to tune perfectly around situations we are.

Also, Shield slam is our most important button, but by nerfing how often we can hit it, still feels bad for our rotation when devastator is default and we have no actual filler abilities that don’t cost rage, except for those procs. So by nerfing shield slam proc rate AND our rage generation you still leave us with empty globals and whether tuned or not, that FEELS bad.

9 Likes

I appreciate the post.

However, the vast majority of the feedback here says: we like the high APM.

I’d like you to take this community feedback into account. These changes were not asked for.

14 Likes

I appreciate trying to slow it down a bit. There are ways to make gameplay interesting without having to play DDR on your keyboard.

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There is also zero mention of tank utility / meta problems.

7 Likes

The tone of the post suggests this is being done in part due to accessibility concerns, but it isn’t outright stated. If that is the truth, just say it plainly. Otherwise, I’m not sure who was having this kind of trouble with the spec.

Slowing down a little might be fine, but IMO you missed the mark and the pendulum has swung pretty far the other way.

8 Likes

It’s mentioned, just a laugh when paladin’s damage is a major part of it being meta.

But THIS TIME, they’re gonna tune warrior’s damage, pinky-promise.

The biggest issue with these changes is that we don’t have a proper filler button. There will be several occasions where the player is waiting for 2-4 seconds for a proc to happen and that is not fun. I understand that the APM is high but reducing the amount of Shield slams that we can cast is not the proper way to do it.

What you guys should be doing is giving players the choice. If they want high APM gameplay then they should be able to choose it. If they want a lower APM gameplay then they should be able to choose that as well. For me, it is just not fun to have my gameplay looking like

Shield slam
Thunder clap
No proc
No proc
No proc
Thunder clap
No Proc
Shield slam

11 Likes

Monitoring performance by what metric Blizzard?

DPS only?

Cuz it’s utility that we need.

We don’t have:

a rez
a combat rez
a dispel / cleanse
a grip
an effective silence
an effective way to assist an ally

We have:

a raid buff that only helps a few classes
a group HP boost that is laughable.
Spell reflect - which you could consider pretty niche.
superior tankiness - which you are currently nerfing.

13 Likes

explain