Prot Paladins suffering from PvE mitigation/self-sustainment

I only run pugs so it is a great thing to fall back on if utilities are not happening or if a pull goes sideways. If the run goes smooth, I do have parts of runs where I fully intend to pull big and stand there. SoA for example, before 2nd boss. I run in, Bloodscale+Divine toll. Wait a few seconds, ardent defender, GoAK, then bubble. You want to use the Kyrian Spear only when the Squad Leader is dead or close to it to maximize AOE. By the time the pack dies and pride spawns, Ardent, Trinket, and Divine Toll are back up for the boss.

I have done it this way in countless pugs and have never wiped here doing it that way.

Thats why I didnt want to go into the dps discussion, and was just talking about the damage absord (in face tank situation) vs 2 judgment dmg (in kite situation).

I don’t wanna go into math class, I go for avenger talent almost always if I tank because it does more damage, I wasn’t arguing which one is better in M+, I was just talking about strength of the shield as that is what was proposed to be uncapped to be more useful, all I said is that atm, the shield is meh, and not as useful as double judgment in a kiting situation. in a full run, avenger will 99% of the time be more useful than 2 judgments

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Yeah, I’m agreeing it’s not as huge of a difference there, baseline. My biggest point/push was that as a Kyrian it makes Divine Toll a massive defensive CD and that wins out hands down. Again, if you’re not Kyrian than you’re not really losing out on much and to each their own.

Hell, I do everything differently. I have a prot spec/gearset design to heal as a 3rd tank and I actively run Beacon of Virtue over Glimmer. Really that’s the beauty of the paladin is the versatility it brings regarding playstyle. I don’t think other tanks have nearly that level of choice and prot paladin is certainly the only tank that can offheal efficiently.

Edit: Since I can’t change my profile, this is my paladin, just so it’s not just a faceless anomaly, that and I can be more easily critiqued/roasted lol

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/bleeding-hollow/stepladder

But yeah, I definitely do a lot of things different and regardless of what is truly ‘better’ I’m always going to support doing what you enjoy as if you don’t enjoy playing the game, what are we even doing? lol

I actually use the double judgements in my healing prot build in tandem with Magistrate’s Judgment.

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Yeah it’s great there, I love it mostly for the extra holy power to offheal faster but they’re all solid options, you’re right.

Lol, Prot paladins are suffering as tanks, they aren’t as bad as they were in BFA but def still need improvements. I enjoyed the way haste worked in BFA and made them feel a bit more exciting to play.
One valid point that needs to be mentioned is that the spec Feels underwhelming based on the talents you pick and that can weigh on players over time. Overall though, prot paladin needs to be a bit retuned IMO turning around will have you under 50% hp w/o CD’s & and it sucks that magic dmg has to be a talent and not something we can just have.

As it has been explained, it’s bad players who blame the class instead of looking for self-improvement that suffer. If it was truly the class, we wouldn’t make up close to 20% of all +15 and up keys, which is in 2nd place next to DH.

It only feels underwhelming if you don’t know how to fully utilize a paladins capabilities.

Why would you ever turn around and have your back exposed?

That’s definitely a problem but it’s not for the same reasons. For the first of the two, Prot War, there were a whole slew of design issues, some persisting into 9.0.5, and for Blood the damage tuning is just atrociously bad.

Prot Paladin CAN do big keys right now but feels way too slanted. A spot of damage in exchange for just better baseline armor, a better way to play the spec without needing huge, huge amounts of haste would be pretty welcome, even if only as a choice.

I Wanted to chime in a little,

I just recently Achieved KSM on my Prot paladin. Rocking a 1299.6 Io and mostly play with guildies. I am a casual player 3-4 nights a week if i’m lucky enough to jump on. I also have a brewmaster and Guardian Druid similar Ilvl and can tank the same level of keys of each other.

The Spec as a whole isn’t far off from being S tier and having some of the best CD’s in the game as a tank blizzard has leaned more into that is our niche and our mitigation has suffered because of those.

Right now in M+ you have two legendaries.
Shield Dmg for Tyrannical weeks= more dmg
And Avengers shield reset for Fort weeks = more survivability
These are debatable for sure but Subcreation shows a pattern here.

Mastery vs Vers is also a huge conversation atm
Mastery shines when we can stack it and face tank.
Vers shines when you need to kite and need the added dmg for threat.

So my suggestion is to blizzard a easy band aid fix her is SOTR Armor needs a bump
Or Mastery needs more in the the point value needed to % DR

Right now in my current gear with SOTR up im sitting at 65% DR on physical hits
And mastery gives me 12% DR. Vers 4% dr

On paper those look pretty decent. This doesn’t translate in dungeons when im getting hit for ¼ of my hps in a global.

TLDR- Please buff our armor gained from SOTR or DR from Mastery increase
Simple band aid fix

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Too*

Also, when giving examples to try and prove your point of a discussion, if you’re using anything other than literal facts, then you’re wasting your own time and probably don’t even care about what you’re discussing in the first place.

I will say that the heavy marrying of consecration & HotR & Mastery sucks sometimes when you gotta kite/disengage. Stepping outside of consecrate will have you taking lots of dmg cus some packs are just fast regardless of the 50% slow consecrate provides. Maybe changing that interaction up would provide more constant dmg reduction. Something like a shield generation similar to avengers shield/sacred shield along with SotR.

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Blizzard agreed and gave all tanks a flat 10%. Strange way to fix things but i guess this is the limit to their abilities as a small indie company.

These aren’t the changes we wanted, just the changes nobody needed.

I just came here to laugh at you, clearly blizz disagrees with you and what you are saying doesnt line up with what they are seeing. Big oof.

It’s clear they are adding the buffs due to all the complaining going on, not because it’s actually needed. Seeing how many players are able to push +20s when the game is scaled to +15 and under.

Blizzard is known to nerf content every expansion. Big oof.

Ok monkeyman, w.e u say

HAHA sure dude, you know more than blizz. You are so high on your own supply its hilarious.

Dude things he is the goat.

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Not trying to start anything but anyone saying they can face tank the bears in HOA for more then a couples seconds is totally contradictory to my experiences with them.

Even with resetting stacks they are just too much to stand in there with for much time outside of cd’s.

You gotta run like a kid escaping Michael Jackson’s ranch.

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You’re welcome to watch if you would like.

Keep trolling. No matter what thread you post in, there’s nothing substantial. People like you will be stuck doing +10s no matter how many buffs/nerfs they add to the game.

Bro your max is a 17… at your ilvl… and you call me a troll. Dang bruh where you buy them clown shoes? They really fit you.

No it’s not. You cant even look up rio correctly. Legitimately all you do is complain or troll instead of learning to deal with challenges

Damn in two weeks you went up by one… congrats? You realize those are still considered low key right? Like you think you are some sort of all enlightened pro pali when there are people messing around in 20+ keys that admit pali needs a buff. But hey man, you got an 18… good for you bud.

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