What concerns me is the blue post mentioned bugs but there was nothing said about it behaving differently inside BGs n such. Which leads me to believe it wasn’t tested or they are just unaware of it.
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Seems quite ridiculous that the paladin having the state that it had in classic, gets additionally boned by bad blizzard implementation.
The last set of breaks coming in AV/WSG are unacceptable.
Blizzard needs to fix this ASAP!
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The worst part is it worked fine aside from people cheesing with a start/stop macro and somehow while fixing that we get royally screwed for the entire first week of BGs. This is assuming it’s fixed tuesday during restart which i strongly doubt since the other thread was locked n deleted when proof was presented to prove the blue poster wrong. So i expect to get screwed badly after tuesday reset then get to be weak for another week of bgs.
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But their defence was the start/stop bug also existed in vanilla.
I don’t care either way. This change shouldn’t of occured a day after BGs launch. This effectively ruined BGs for anyone playing paladin and potentially costed people 100g as well.
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Pretty much this. Seems like the classic devs are just throwing around spaghetti code and breaking things left and right with their other "bug"fixes.
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Notice there isn’t a patch being rushed out in the middle of BG week to disable shamans double casting during elemental mastery courtesy of spell batching but neutering paladins for an the entire first week is fine.
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lolwut…
all of you trolls said gaining charges via sit + spell batching wasn’t possible
this past week’s “fixes” do nothing to remove that nor will their secondary repair fix next week either
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no I said spell batching was in Vanilla - you guys said it wasn’t lol
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Last I checked it isn’t, you have to use a modified and artificial spell batch to even have a chance at it.
Just like the last several topics you preached about, you lost.
nope you /sit and stand while watching the swing timer or /sit and strafe while watching the swing timer - nothing has changed - considering you play a Paladin on Classic and are level 60, you should look yourself in the mirror and question your place in life
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Lets keep this thread clean and raise awareness about it to other pallies. Tell yo guilds tell yo wives.
Don’t give them justification to delete the thread and do nothing.
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Hello fellow Paladins of the Light and to all other classes who help us thank you.
Theloras and I have proof from another video that
Proves there was no range limit to reckoning
Looks like this proves you wrong Aristeia
Okay, right off the bat:
Most of these videos are not 1.12 so circumstantial at best.
But, huge issue: most of your arguments are what Reckcounter, the addon, is reporting. That is not an argument and as we’re arguing edge cases, there is no proof that Reckcounter also properly accounted for these edge cases.
Also, some of your points are immediately counterable, like
Mounting also doesnt remove Reckoning Bomb (though the addon may reset)
then you only show a clip that starts with the player already mounted. It was known even back then you could bypass the mount stipulation by gathering charges while already mounted. Your clips do not give any proof that the act of mounting should not remove the charges.
etc.
Attacking from very far does not remove Reckoning Bomb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBnhhzOjCdQ&t=5m44s
Look at the distance he hits the orc hunter from. 5:44-6:06
Are we even watching the same clip? The paladin doesn’t initiate auto attack until he’s already touching the hunter. You can stare at his Unstoppable Force auto attack icon on his bars.
Reckoning is not dumping during death which means theres no reason for reckoning to be lost in death
/watch?v=YBnhhzOjCdQ&t=18m45s
/watch?v=lQzxgkXRA1Y&t=2m14s
What is this? You can’t simulateneously say in your opening “We can’t trust Reckcounter” (my words: you state that certain things will display wrong on reckcounter, i.e. after being hit by Scatter Shot) then simultaneously make arguments based off addons.
Fear/Blind/Scatter shot/polymorph resets Reck counter only as stated by Thakshar
/watch?v=lQzxgkXRA1Y&t=5m10s
(very important)
That link is simply 10 seconds of text in a video stating this. Where is a video link of someone getting scattered or polymorphed then instantly, without being crit another time, reck bombing someone? That is an argument.
https://i.imgur.com/dB66Lf7.png ← My proof I am correct
Oh you do attempt to provide video of a Reckoning immediately after Scatter. So, your argument is he gets Scattered then attacks twice on the next hit? I don’t see any proof in that clip that he does not have HoJ equipped.
Actually, I was wrong. He attacks as he gets scattered, and there is no white text. White text comes up on your next attack. This was a known bug in Vanilla. I will update my post. I actually think this is how it works in Classic too, though I am a mage so I don’t auto attack much obviously.
And Frost Nova does not reset reckoning bomb it resets the addon Reck Counter
Frost nova resets reckcounter (not reckoning bomb)
If you look closely in super slow motion you can see that Reckcounter says reckoning dumped
when the paladin is hit by frost nova, yet the paladin didnt hit the mage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5dfjQjLnJs?t=2m33s
No. He hit the mage a second earlier then clearly lags out, and a second later when all the units teleport to him (after the lag), his combat log catches up, so the addon states, from his last hit, that his Reckoning dumped (you can literally see him hit the mage several times into Ice Barrier). Just being able to make this mistake invalidates everything else in your post. You lose all credibility as an author.
How reckoning is currently scripted is completely wrong, an example of how it should work can be found in Loke 2 a famous pally vid from vanilla.
In this video at 0:20 he attacks zeromancer with a few stacks of reckoning, he then targets himself while gaining more stacks (changing target), then aggressively targets zeromancer again at 0:24 while being out of range of auto attack swings (shown by the messages on the screen), he then casts Hammer of Justice, then moves into range to and unleashes a reck bomb the second his auto attack is in range, without him losing any stacks due to being out of range or changing targets.
This is not how reckoning functions at all in classic, if you are out of range you lose your stacks, if you change target you lose your stacks and now for no reason at all you lose your stacks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygo9VE9j8E4?t=20s
He’s in range when his swing timer comes up. Those 3 seconds out of range don’t matter. He has GM’s 2h sword, 20->24 seconds is basically the entire swing timer.
But, this might be the only clip that actually shows something. I do not know if Reckoning on Classic doesn’t stack if you’re targetting yourself or another target and that’s an actual bug, but this clip does actually show the Combat Log stacking Reckoning when targeting himself.
Overall: Half of one of his 10 claims is apparently working differently on Classic and actually defended. How does this have 15 upvotes? Oh, because none of you actually vetted the proof, you just upvoted because you want Reckoning to be better and it fits your preconceived world view.
I bet I was the very first person to actually read through the post and actually watch the videos (and I almost guarantee it because a lot of the links are broken so I had to find the timestamps myself).
Didn’t even vet the information, just blindly say “Excellent work!” because it supports you. Literally everything that’s wrong in this world, even on the big scale, not just within WoW.
edit: writing a novel and providing video links when the actual substance of the text and the video links is not substantive is not an argument simply because you wrote an essay.
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So if you did not read my above post, please do:
Now let me tell you how this post should have gone.
Claim #1 and #2: Reckoning should not be dropped when attacking from too far away.
Provide a video of a player not on swing-timer cooldown attacking from out of range and still Reck bombing a target (without being crit during the process).
What you did wrong: Your Loke 2 and 16 second hunter-kite clip are not that. Loke is on swing-timer cd and the paladin in the second clip doesn’t even have auto-attack turned on.
Claim #3: Mounting also doesnt remove Reckoning Bomb
Provide a clip of a target having charges, mounting, then a continuous clip of him not being crit on the mount, then still Reck bombing.
What you did wrong: You only show the end. You can still gain charges while mounted after having them dropped from mounting.
Claim #4: Reckoning should not dump when dying
Provide a clip of someone dying, then Reck bombing after rezzing without being crit.
What you did wrong: You’re stating that simply because an addon is not stating the Reck was dumped on death, it must not have dumped. Truly idiotic.
Claim #5: Fear/blind/scatter/polymorph should not reset Reckoning.
Provide a clip where a target is affected by one of those, then immediately Reck bombs.
What you did wrong: Completely different issue. He loses control of his character (scatter) in the same batch that he auto attacks. No white text from that attack appears. He dodges the attack. The Dodge white text then appears on his next attack.
Claim #6: Frost Nova does not remove Reckoning… (and it should?) ???
Not really sure what your claim here is or what direction you were going ???
What you did wrong: … I’m not retyping from above. Just read above. Silliest claim and proof of them all.
Pretty sure your other claims aren’t even actual bugs.
0 for 6 for any of the actual complaints. You also restate the same claims multiple times.
And to other readers: When someone comes to you and tells you the 5 most-known facts about something are WRONG (resulting in benefit to you), you’re being scammed if they’re selling something, or in this case, they’re wrong.
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I was going to read into your post further with earnest, but then it soon spiraled into out of control anger directed at anyone you could possibly quote; myself included.
Reckoning is a notoriously buggy talent that has had multiple changes throughout its life span in vanilla. The main concern is figuring out which iteration of change we’re on and how it functions. People are trying to figure out how core mechanics worked from previous and post patches. The previous blue post never stated that this was a specific interaction in 1.12 for the reckoning mechanic, like how Vanish works in 1.12.
You saying he’s wrong for x reason because he’s essentially grabbing at straws is a fair argument, but there’s still valid questions and concerns.
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Why would an addon track interactions that never happened? If it wasn’t in this patch; why was it updated and the interaction kept?
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In the scatter shot video you state that we don’t know if HoJ is equipped. This is an interesting theory, but HoJ has a spell animation for the player. If you can find me something showing otherwise (during this patch or when it was added) then by all means link it.
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On Classic (pre monday patch) reckoning stacks on the player – and from what you can extrapolate from some of these videos, it always has. Swapping targets should not drop stacks.
I don’t expect a thoughtful response void of personal insults from you, but just wanted to clarify some of your concerns. I hope that in your future posts you don’t make [over] half of your critique about insulting someones intelligence and personlly attacking anyone you set your eyes on.
Have a good one!
Edit: pre, not post monday.
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Because this post is the legal equivalent of sending 10,000 pages of “relevant” documentation in a court suit just to overwhelm people, rendering them unable to keep up with the spam, rather than having a strong, concise actual argument.
But more importantly, my #1 life trigger is people not being taught proper argumentation, and either by malicious intent or ignorance, joining arguments and simply blindly siding with their preconceived world-view and not taking and perusing presented evidence, because why be intelligent, truthful, and correct when you can simply believe what you want and what benefits you the most.
Any addon-based argument is completely meritless to start. Just cause some random dude decided to put some LUA into a random text file doesn’t give grounds for an argument from the get-go.
Even with that argument, this is idiotic because in this post the OP simultaneous says “Even though the addon says Reckoning is dropped on Scatter, it’s not” then say “The addon doesn’t say Reckoning dumped when dying, so it must not”. Hello?
Actually, I figured out the issue. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbYnyfaL7J8&t=1m15s. He attacks as he gets scattered, and there is no white text. White text comes up on your next attack. This was a known bug in Vanilla. I will update my post. I actually think it works like this in Classic too, though I am a mage so I don’t attack often.
I concede that last point
But, this might be the only clip that actually shows something. I do not know if Reckoning on Classic doesn’t stack if you’re targetting yourself or another target and that’s an actual bug, but this clip does actually show the Combat Log stacking Reckoning when targeting himself.
And that might be relevant to the 2 bugs they claim will be fixed on server restarts.
So, TL:DR: of this guys like 10 claims, there are actually 7, 6 of which are not defended with his evidence.
Also, right off the bat, this post opens with:
That’s literally the de-facto standard, holy Bible, complete basis of Reckoning and playing around it.
From the get-go, the reaction should have been “this is too good to be true, everything we know about Reckoning for 15 years was wrong ? ? ?”, but no, paladins are just so greedy to get some buffs they just go “Excellent post!”
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(I’m on a phone, so quoting takes too long.)
- I mean, the vidoes are also kind of meritless as well because we don’t know the exact build number of any of these videos. For all we know they could be exact or even off by a single digit. This being said, I would warrant a widely used addon to carry a similar – yet smaller – amount of merit in a topic about reckoning functionality.
a. Without actually looking at the addon subversions we don’t know for sure what changes were made and when. I’d like to take a look if I had access to it, as it would probably reveal a lot.
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Batching isn’t the same and latency changes have varied. So, yes you can still batch an auto attack when you’re scattered. If that’s what you mean.
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The blue post was kind of cryptic as in it could be construed different ways. We’re not all quite sure what exactly is bugged and how it will all work. From the looks of it, as of right now reckoning functions very similarly to a parry attacks.
As for OPs claims, I’m more interested in the substantial evidence he posted, and I simply didn’t have enough time to comb through it all. Some of his claims are very far reaching, but I believe the main purpose of his post is to get Blizzard to get a deeper look into how reckoning functions instead of feeling like we were written off with a locked post; at least that’s how it felt to me. It’s very unsettling when Blizzard makes a massive change to your class months after launch, I’m frustrated and so is everyone who plays(ed) it.
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