I can’t change your mind because I agree with you.
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There is catchup. My alt got to lvl 9 renown by lvling/ completing the campaign.
384 trinkets and gear are not “basic recipes” You get them at 13 renown. You wouldn’t want them in week one, anyway, as that would be counter-productive and silly.
Sounds like you’re not a serious crafter. Perhaps just try double gathering.
I am a huge crafter and I do not want everyone getting every recipe right way so I have some chance to focus on a market nice for a few weeks.
Can’t…as I don’t disagree with a word you typed.
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Biggest issue I’m seeing is that the market and crafting orders are being severely limited by a timegated material.
So unless you knew exactly how to get to 100 by advanced knowledge (instead of going in blind and learning in game), you got hosed and are stuck essentially waiting for the timegate to be removed.
Once we can start farming Spark’s, and the market won’t be artificially capped with some of us stuck unable to participate, I think things will feel better.
The biggest issue with crafting is time gating knowledge points. Let people farm knowledge points via whatever content they prefer. Have it drop everywhere for everything so long as you’re killing something to get it.
Having recipes time gated behind rep is more than enough.
Right now, if you’ve screwed up your build, it can take several weeks to months to course correct. I can only speak for myself, but I’m not even bothering with professions other than casual gathering unless they ease things up.
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Please excuse my ignorance but what is “darkmoons lvling”?
Darkmoon faire has profession quests that give you skill points and knowledge.
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This. I’ve always spent a lot of time in crafting in all the games I’ve played, including WoW all the way up to and including Legion. Since BfA, however, I’ve given up. I have more fun just running alts through legacy zones, and leveling Horde characters now, since I’ve always played Alliance. I’ll just buy whatever gear I need from the AH, and I’ll be fine with that. Better equipment always comes on with the next expansion, anyway.
Honestly I find the system SO confusing and it seems like it would take an inordinate amount of time and work to do anything at all meaningful with it, to the point where I’ve kind of just given up. I guess I’ll stick to gathering and hoping my mats sell to bring in any kind of gold.
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For sure. Looking, again, at Draconic Treatises (because I make those and fill orders for those almost daily, so they are an easy example):
The mats include parchment and ink alongside a little mettle, one awakened element, and some leather
The parchment is a material I always have on hand. The ink is a material I make myself…so why on earth does the public order require people to gather those?
Why can’t they just front the mettle and the element and let me work out the rest with a commission? It would feel better to everyone, and it baffles me that they’ve done it this way. I mean, sure, leave the option to include ink. Scribes who did not spec into Draconic Treatises will have the ink, so they could offer full mats for less commission or whatever, but there is no choice, and it makes people who’ve never touched inscription hunt down ink (overpriced on the AH as always) for a +1 knowledge book they can only use once per week.
It feels like getting screwed over to people and it feels like too much work/gold to gather mats from a profession they don’t use for too little in return. If I take my car to the shop, I don’t expect the mechanic to say, “Okay, little lady, go out there and source all these parts and then bring them to me and then I’ll fix your car.” I expect that said mechanic will have the materials of his own profession on hand, and I will pay him for both his skill AND his access to esoteric materials for fixing my car.
Why would we expect an engineer to have scribal inks in his bank or ask him to go buy scribal inks to give the SCRIBE in a crafting order?
I keep asking myself over and over again, “Did no one test this?”
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they originally didn’t have it set up that way. They had the crafter provide all the mats - but if they would have left it that way you would have people wanting goods made for 500g when the mats were worth 10k. It was based on feedback in beta that this was changed.
I think if they had just linked the mats to the auction house in some way so that the crafter would know the current mat cost was ‘x’ to give them an idea of what to give as commission it might have worked better.
For eg - when it came time to add a commission show the current cost of the items as suggested commission plus tip.
See, and I don’t get that: the crafter does not HAVE to accept lowball commissions, and AH price on a given day doesn’t always reflect the actual value/cost of things.
Ink, for example, is extremely cheap for scribes to make, but it’s generally on the AH for extortionate prices. I just think it was a bad change.
Edited to add:
Forcing crafters to take any and every order available by attaching weekly knowledge to filling the orders created a really wonky and illogical market where customers could get expensive, hard-to-make items for nothing…and I think that’s likely where the change came from.
But the issue was not crafters using their own mats. The issue was attaching knowledge to craft orders. They took the order and turned it into the product. The order is what has value, not the product. That’s the core issue.
This would cause the work order rejection rate to go through the roof and risk the whole system falling over because it would train potential customers that “Crafters are a bunch of greedy rip off merchants”.
As crafters you and I know that is not true but by hiding the material costs from the customer that is the mentality that would arise.
This I agree with 100%. Work orders would be so much better if levelling your craft skill to 100 was the first step, then at 100 you can buy all the cool renown based recipies that you sell in the work order system.
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you are putting everything on the crafter though then and if they had set it up that way the people with gold would accept orders at losses just for the skill points which ultimately would drive people away from crafting. right now you at least aren’t losing money on every order you make
nah remember this is beta - and those work orders weren’t even working until the last month. Those quests never even came into the issue.
I’m amazed that you think you can compare legendaries that last an entire expansion to weapon enchants that might last half a tier…
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What do you mean?
You had to update your legendary every patch - so get that “whole xpac” non-sense out of here.
So now you might be arguing that you may have to enchant your items more than once within a patch? True. Then again, why are you using a BiS enchant on a non-BiS item?
If you aren’t pushing for world first or getting subsidized by your guild, then you have really deep pockets or really bad judgement.
Either way - none of that was my point.
My point is that crafting professions are always operating on margins. Depending on your server (before region-wide ah) and the item, those margins almost always trend down.
Except the majority of the players really love the new crafting system. It is really the gem of this new expansion.
I super love that I had to make a 5000 gold repair hammer that had one use and could only be used on a crafted two hander 38 times to level my blacksmithing. Just to find out I can’t actually make anything for myself at a decent ilvl and it will be cheaper to pay another blacksmith to make my gear than to gear myself out and do it on my own.
Great change that the game really needed.
Sarcasm aside FF really does crafting so much better. These changes were horrible and there never should have been RNG procs. Just recraft materials that dropped from Raid, M+, and rare WQ or weeklies. Just so you could do your own and it would still be gated or ilvl would be based purely on performance in game modes. Instead of how much gold you had to spend to get optimized enough to actually have a profession in demand and able to 5 star.
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