Best of luck on axe 2!
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Hey, thanks mister 
Good luck!
Why do you care so much about that?
If you donât have the agenda of being #1 (like youâve been for two expansions), why care so much if someone else is #1?
Furies will still get SM. Thatâs what youâre most concern about, right?
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x class is doing better than me time to change the entire game cause iâm insecure about my dps
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When x class is at the top because they got huge Classic-only buffs they didnât even need, yeah, people are going to ask âwhat about me?â I donât know why this is shocking to people.
And we can throw hunters in there, too. Trap launcher was another absurd buff in the name of QoL and now they have two of the top specs in the game. Meanwhile rogues, which were very strong in ICC originally, are being reduced to debuff bots like itâs TBC again. Buff rogues, buff shamans, or revert these insane buffs that a lucky few specs received!
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Sure!
The thread is someone demanding a buff for fury though which is utterly ridiculous.
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Yeah, I donât mind buffs that bring classes closer together in terms of potential DPS.
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Scaling is how much DPS you gain per phase.
If the item is bugged. as youre suggesting, they should fix it.
mages and locks are S++ for like 80% of every expansion this game ever has, are you going to hold that against them? Sorry recklessness was a wonky ability that made top end parses crazy with world buffs every 30 minutes in a totally different game?
the problem with hunter being #1 is it was BUFFED to change the meta in classic. It was already better than warrior. Why are top tier specs getting buffs? Why is ret, which is very strong in ICC, buffed?
The problem is totally reshuffling what is and isnt good, and buffing already strong specs, in a classic version of the game.
Certainly, if youâre ready for another round of ret paladin buffs and us going for Deathbringerâs Will by all means, do it.
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Guess what:
Unless youâre a Horde, Troll warrior, even rolling back the buffs wonât make your precious lil babee warrior the best.
Deal with it.
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Or maybe not ask the community for votes on who gets buffed or nerfed and instead do the actual work. That is, track performance and maintain a threshold, and if a spec crosses that threshold - buff or nerf it accordingly.
For bonus points Bliz could even let the community know what metrics theyâre using âŚ
Then, irrespective of tribal views about who does or doesnât deserve it, players can at least acknowledge there is a well articulated process which is fairly applied.
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lmao werenât ret paladins saying all expansion that they were tuned around T10? Why do they need a custom 10% damage buff in T10 then?
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And I recall a few posters even saying (pinky promise) âif we donât need it in the final phase Iâd be the first to accept itâs removalâ.
I never believed that - buffs donât generally get removed unless theyâre making an outlandish impact.
Who knew - people are self interested. The problem isnât peoples self interest, itâs Blizzard deferring to it in lieu of an actual process.
I donât think they ever did?
I mean, yeah, exactly.
Well yeah - not saying thatâs bad or anything, they shouldnât remove buffs unless theyâre posing a real issue. Just saying that people on forums talk out of their respective proverbials and should be taken with a grain of salt - as a response to Woopeeâs comment.
Itâs a bit more complicated than that. Ret was only kind of tuned around T10. They didnât get any specific class changes in the last year of wrath, but during that time the class was supercharged a bit by our 2pc bonus, tiny abom, and possibly shadowmourne.
In addition, the average skill level of players was much, much lower, so ret, which is pretty simple to maximize (you basically canât mess it up badly if you are maximizing GCD use), looked considerably better relative to the rest of the pack. All of that left ret looking like one of the best DPS, which Blizz was happy with, and left ret in that state until cata.
People play classic differently. Thereâs a much, much more widespread aim to maximize damage rotations, compositions, etc. Since ret was already being played toward itâs maximum, it got basically no gains relative to the average play of every other class, and it was left deeply behind. Meanwhile, holy and prot is significantly overused, which made the utility ret could bring also entirely unnecessary, as it wasnât the best source of any of it.
All of that stuff was true at the start of Ulduar, and itâs still true now. Ret should be a competitive DPS spec without shadowmourne. The class spikes early in the phase, and already ret isnât even the top melee on fights like Festergut. If we took back the buffs that are supposedly no longer needed, ret would be at around blood DK levels of DPS, and we all know how many of those are being sought after and used (there are 313 blood parses in heroic Festergut in the last 2 weeks). The highest warrior parse already is better than ret (although their average is slightly behind), and that spec scales better than ret does moving forward.
Without the buffs, ret would also fall behind arcane mage on fights like Saurfang, which would just get us replaced by them as the new source of 3% damage.
The entire spec is still hinging on those buffs being there. Guilds arenât going to carry a ret for about 2 months until their spec gets a shadowmourne (assuming you give it to the ret first) and becomes okish. They already arenât doing that for blood.
Now, thereâs some nuanced discussion that the buffs might be slightly over the top at this moment, but itâs definitely in the range of âslightly,â if at all. Nothing about how ret is performing at the moment looks particularly absurd, and even after the upcoming shadowmourne spike, which warriors also get, thatâs not going to be putting ret anywhere but among the top, but not the actual top.
Which is pretty much where ret was in ICC back then. It just needed buffs now to repeat that performance.
I am glad to see that assassination rogues are still keeping up at the moment. I hope it continues as the phase progresses.
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Theyre an âexceptionâ according to Zirene, because the game producer plays ret 
Time to play Season of Discovery, ret is blasting there too!
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no surprise! When the senior game producer can make an exception to buff his main that is already an S tier spec in ICC you can bet ret will be insane in SoD as well lol, it was doing like double 2nd place dps on the sample play streams.