Nobody has tier sets or shadowmourne and almost no one has the stupid broken trinket on PTR.
It seemed “obvious” that they wouldn’t revert the nerf for a second time, too, but here we are.
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The one thing I will say is this:
Blizzard shouldn’t really balance specs based on where they are with a legendary. When rets don’t have one, they aren’t competitive with top specs (neither is fury), but are pretty reasonably tuned with these buffs.
If you tune ret so that they need shadowmourne to be a mid tier spec, they are pretty much trash tier and not really a consideration for a raid slot without it, nevermind one you carry for 1-2 months until it stops holding you back.
There isn’t a ton of room under where ret is without shadowmourne before it is in range of specs that you just don’t even seriously consider bringing to raids at all.
That all said, I do think rogues should be a bit higher. If these sims are accurate, at least one rogue spec could use buffs to break the 16k DPS barrier of the top DPS specs.
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Idk what you are talking about. When i raid on my 252 rogue the fury and ret of the same ilvl are competing against me at the top. The biggest outlier would be feral with 242 ilvl competing with the three of us in basically p3 bis. Other than that you’ll have your usual lock, mage, unholy usually at the top unless they suck.
I mean, literally any spec can do this when lacking context of the group. A person doing 95 parses in a group of 60s/70s is just going to win.
So yeah… they might just suck… Ret isn’t a top tier damage spec, and never has been. If everyone is playing and geared evenly, it isn’t near the top without the fight favoring it.
Dude, it took like 10 replies before you started to semi-understand what a parallel line was.
Haha, until Aggrend entered the picture, than as Zirene said, ret became the “exception.”
People continue to post this without any context. This was during phase 2. And continues to be true even into ICC unless you get a legendary. And legendary weapons SHOULD be an exception.
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I think the funniest thing about these threads is that , it doesn’t seem like ret is going to be nerfed, so the only thing this thread is good for is ret propaganda now, they can use this thread as evidence that ret->warrior and get that shadowmourne prio, even though the original intention of the thread is to get ret’s nerfed so the op can get his shadowmourne on his warrior
best thing of all is, its not even true, warrior is going to outdps ret, the warriors are working for the wrong side, by going all in on ret nerfs, you’ve sealed your fate when they didn’t happen, the narrative is “ret is the 2nd best melee dps” and it can’t be undone.
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Yes, they were actually trying to buff ret significantly, because the spec was severely underperforming.
That’s why it was an exception. It’s the only DPS spec that needed buffs due to not having alternate DPS options that were viable.
Honestly, in equally geared/skilled players, you probably give Smourne prio to the fury because it has noticeably better cleave, and speed runners save more time on trash DPS gains than single target (where we basically tied on sims).
Plus, I’m kind of expecting fury parses to pass ret on single target as well by the end of the phase.
smourne is dk tank prio
Can’t do full DPS if your tank has no threat!
I understand it just fine, it just doesn’t have any relevance.
Now in your understanding, before we go any further, what is geometry?
fury been underperforming all game with none of the utility a ret brings
https://www.reddit.com/gallery/16xzqi4
PTR stats, warriors is basically obsolete, least used class in 25 man heroic
Ret was at about the same level in Naxx, and was worse off in Ulduar before buffs.
None of the utility was good enough to overlook it’s DPS.
Oh no, fury is only as represented as… a half dozen other classes… the horror!
We already know prot is screwed.
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now you understand why warrior as a whole class is brought 0-1 to raid and why warrior as a class is the least parsed class all game.
give warriors an innervate and a battle rez and maybe we can justify a world where you bring 0-1 of them.
ret wishes it was the same level as fury, the reality was it wasn’t even close, an average of about a 10% gap extending to almost 20% on the very top end throughout naxx, pre-buff ret is more around the arms/frost mage level than near fury
Nerf feral
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if you go to warcraft logs, and look at phase 1, and go to patchwerk, ret was ahead of both fury and arms
The number 1 ret, Zafia, did 7401 dps
The number 1 fury warrior, [우에스기겐신], did 8310 dps
The number 1 arms warrior, lockcole, did 7301 dps
even on single target undead like patch, ret was barely beating arms at the very top level, you’ll find that if you go through all of the fights, arms and ret split the fights almost 50/50, while fury beats them both on every fight
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I already linked him the facts, dude doesn’t care. He has a false narrative to push and he’s gonna keep pushing it:
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Comparing the single top Parse with the single top Parse is a horrible way to do it. Ret is less impacted by RNG so Fury will have a higher top parse but a lower average parse.
Some classes have a higher theoretical max but the stars have to align in order to hit it. Others are more reliable.
I mean using that method would show Feral and Fire to be massively OP as their outlier potential is huge.
Taking the single top parse from each spec yields some seriously wonky results. If you built tier lists from it, it wouldn’t make sense because it would be very far removed from players actual experiences.