He was saying that pugs are bouncing renew for free. I was saying that doesn’t even matter when you can bounce it yourself
Are you playing against teams with ret paladins not cleaving, mages not nova/living bomb/rogues on back line/etc?
I don’t think Pom is a big issue, I think penance is.
Could they have adjusted the mana cost to reflect how strong it was? Yeah but they don’t seem to be doing that for any class.
Its already reflected in its CD, 12 seconds is an eternity. Y’all out here acting like people throwing out penances like Oprah.
Well they could and should have done that instead of throughput.
But that would require them to look at logs, cast the spells a few times on a dev only PTR. Etc. Something clearly they are not willing to do.
It’s just that easy foks!
Also i want to point out that SoD is using the legion back end client, there’s a very good possibility that they could copy large swaths of that code and port it into SoD with only moderate amounts of changes required.
But why do actual work that you get paid to do when you can just change a couple numbers in a database and call it a day instead.
I crit you for 350 dmg with 4 mana LOL
Quite possibly the single biggest damage to mana coefficient to ever exist in any iteration of wow to ever exist.
Only if you were a helpless pug going up against 3+ priests in a premade, but you were going to lose regardless in that scenario.
Priests were not OP in PvE and not OP in raw numbers in pvp, the mana was the main issue.
Real. lol
With this nerf, lets be honest it is a nerf, priest has the lowest HPS out of all the healers, so why would they need more power?
All healers should be on pre nerf priest or resto druid level of healing. Period.
The mana was the issue.
Nobody is saying that.
We are looking at penance directly and observing that it is entirely too strong. Topping an FC to full literally for free.
They could have jacked up the mana cost too and left it as is but they didn’t.
And if you’re like me you are probably suspicious they’ll add more items that reduce damage taken in BGs further buffing direct healing
Maybe this all changes when burst classes finally get some talent points like warlock shaman. But we don’t know till we see it. Mortal strike will obv change everything
They seem to be just balancing things by phase. Otherwise they would have done nothing to priests imo. I personally don’t care about 25 and am waiting for the real game
Yet we do know.
Casters at 25 have MC pre raid bis equivalent of spell power, at 40 we will likely have mid MC loot level of spell power.
Shamans can one shot without lava burst at 250 spell power in era, at 40 shamans and shadow priests with gnomer gear of atleast 130 upwards of 170 spell power will both be able to one shot people.
Chaos bolts can hit for 1k with certain setups at level 25 and great gear, at 40 chaos bolt due to its scaling property will be able to one shot as well, infact chaos bolt is the only iffy thing out of all the casters, shaman, priests, and mages will all have the ability to one shot at level 40 with the current scaling in the game.
Healers will be completely useless.
Healers will exist at 40, they do more than just pump penance/pom, it’s literally fine. Im sorry your god class got nerfed and you’ll be exposed for the player you are.
But that’s not the whole picture.
I have the same amount of hp on my shaman your average 40 shaman has even without way of earth on.
Stamina will drastically increase across the board with spell power
What you are looking for is what runes will come next, not a black and white “there’s more spell dmg now”
You also need to see if the pattern continues to add resilience pieces to battle ground rep and rank gear.
Surely the wsg helm wasn’t a “one off” item?
with the burst in the game at 40 no organized pvp player will want to bring healers over a one shot burst class, in unorganized pug pvp healers will be an anchor and hindrance that could have been another one shot burst class dps
Priests should have had their mana cost nerfed rather than healing and ive been advocating that all healers druids, shamans, paladins, and mages should have the same throughput as priests +/- 5%
The nerf was not only not thought out, but indicates that blizzard thinks that mage healing is in an okay spot, that shaman and paladin healing is in an okay spot when that is untrue.
Only priests and druids were in an okay spot. Blizzard is clueless.
But stamina hasn’t kept up with damage, and the burst casters have not come online yet.
at 40 tanks might have 3k ish HP and probably wont be one shottable, casters in mostly cloth dps gear will not have more than 1.8 to 2.4k and will absolutely be one shotable and globaled by the majority of the player base.
The entire game will be who can one shot the other person first decides who wins.
A godmode MC parse in prebis is like 400 dps, people are doing 250 dps at 25 in BFD, the burst is going to be insane.
The one shots will most likely be present in WPVP, you will get one shot from behind a bush without ever being able to engage in pvp.
In instanced pvp i do think they will add more resil style items or increase the dmg reduction to 30 or 35 percent in AB.
It depends on the gear if any healer can outheal a single geared dps at 40 even in BG’s most likely the answer is no.
You don’t know that dude. You haven’t seen it and you haven’t seen the loot yet for next raid. Stamina will increase dramatically and they’ll prolly add more “resilience” stuff
Healers will always be brought to organized pvp, what in the world makes you think that’s viable?
Nobody is going to be dying in half a second if they keep on with the resilience focus.
BGs are just terrible for level 25. It’s worth not even worrying about till 40+ once we are there seeing it and plying it, not just speculation
People are already dying in half a second in wpvp and in coordinated pvp the raid leader says on discord “Kill Lazarak” or “Kill whoever” and the person is deleted from existence in less than half a second. 100 > 0 in nothing flat.
At 40 you wont even need a raid leader saying “kill x” you will just need 2 shadow priests, 2 shaman friends, 2 chaos bolt warlock friends to cast on the same person at the same time regardless of heals they will be deleted from the game, it already happens at level 25 in WSG by premades. I’ve seen it countless times.
I play organized BGs I know what focus fire is.
That’s a product of good focus fire. Also, there is no resilience in wpvp, so it’s irrelevant to the topic of healers in bgs
Killing a player in a global with focus fire from multiple characters is fine and structured.
Rigut now focus fire doesnt even matter bc penance
Im talking about healers in the entire game, not just BG’s.
In wpvp it will be who one shots who, healers will be free HK’s as per my OP saying that healers will be free HK’s in the open world.
In AB when burst classes come online you wont have to “focus fire” you could literally have two burst friends just target the same person and delete them from the game, why in that scenario would you ever bring a healer when they are incapable of healing the damage being done. You can not heal a one shot. You can not heal a global.
Healers will be dead at 40.
Can you please advise which classes and under what circumstances are killing healers in one or two GCDs at the moment?
Sure I mean wpvp is whatever.
The new pvp event will be trash too just like ashenvale
Because focus fire isn’t guaranteed to land when your team knows what they’re doing.
Teams are not running to bs and deleting people for free witu zero interruption
This just reads like some one who doesn’t have a good understanding of pvp and is mad their class was rightfully nerfed.
I’ll leave you to your doomsaying
Or, your team could just provide peels.
BFD meters don’t matter. The raid tuning is incredibly forgiving at present and priests have a secure spot because they’re the only class that can defensively dispel. These changes are to address pvp imbalance. One priest is not that big a deal. Three or more priests requires running them oom to secure a kill unless your group’s focus fire is top notch.
You can’t just take 20% off warcraft logs hps because that includes hps from spells not being nerfed and hps from +spellpower/healing gear which isn’t affected because its a base heal nerf.
It also assumes the priest has no alternative heal to cast other than rune heals. In practice the nerf means the priest will just need to maybe cast a couple of extra heal/lesser heals keeping up a similar hps but wanding a bit less. It is not a flat 20% hps reduction for every encounter.
Base healing done by rune abilities reduced by 20%.
The core heals are untouched. This is only penance and PoM getting adjustments. Priests were still incredibly strong healers in PvP back in classic. PoM and penance make people unkillable in bgs when stacked with more than one priest. MS was barely going to make a dent when 2 or 3 penances were hitting a target from 20% to 100% in one hit. Just like the WS needs a tune down, so does penance and PoM. Agreed that other healers need to be brought up though.
People keep saying things like this but it’s a lie. PoM and Penance are not free or practically free, they cost 70 something mana each at level 25 and you regenerate 40 something per 5 seconds outside the FSR. Maybe over 50 with good gear and consumables.
It is possible to reach a point where you’re so OOM you can’t cast either PoM or Penance BUT since penance is a long 12 second cooldown, if you literally stop casting anything else you may be able to keep casting it on CD. In BFD pugs or PvP you can easily be pressured into casting more than PoM and Penance and go OOM fairly quickly. Premades stacking 3 priests in an environment with -25% damage doesn’t give you a good idea of the individual power of a priest or how long their mana lasts when they’re actually pressured.
Penance is not so good that healing a single target once every 12 seconds is going to work out for very long though in PvP or PvE.
It does 500 some healing without crits also and does not top someone off from low health unless they’re running around naked. That was before a 20% nerf.