Prepatch honor and why it wasn't an issue in 2.0.1

WoW Classic Cataclysm Classic Discussion
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The reason for the hotfix is not Blizzard taking the screenshots as fact. The hotfix was literally taking this page and copy pasting the honor values.

https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Honor_point_(pre-4.0.1)?oldid=511410

Earning Honor Points

Honorable kills

Honorable kills is the simplest method of earning honor points. Kill a member of the opposing faction and you will recieve a number of honor points, depending on your level, their level, any diminishing returns (see below) and if you are in a party or not.

There is a diminishing return on multiple kills of the same player, which will reduce the honor received by 10%. After 10 kills that particular opponent will no longer yield any honor points when killed. This factor is reset daily, when the honor calculations are run on the servers.

Racial Leaders

Killing racial leaders or of Capital Cities also gives a significant number of Honor Points when killed, however these are often challenging, as you will have to deal with a significant number of opposing faction members as well. Usually best attempted in raid groups.

Objectives

Many objectives exist in both Battlegrounds and in World PvP that yield honor points.

Warsong Gulch

  • capturing the opponents flag, rewards 40 honor (at level 60)
  • winning the match, rewards 20 honor (at level 60)

Arathi Basin

  • Collecting multiples of 330 resources (at 330, 660, 990 , …), rewards 20 honor each (at level 60).
  • Winning the match rewards 20 honor (at level 60).

Alterac Valley

  • Killing Enemy General (56 honor)
  • Killing Enemy Captain (14 honor)
  • Killing Enemy Lieutenants (14 honor)
  • Killing Enemy Commanders (14 honor)
  • Killing Enemy Tower Commanders (14 honor)
  • Destroying an Enemy Tower (14 honor)

This is the reason why the hotfix did exactly what it did.

This is also why all of the screenshots from TBC had higher values as “Per kill Honor” was 20.9 honor per kill at level 70 instead of 14 honor per kill at level 60 regarding Bonus Objective honor calculation.

But you see…prepatch HK honor was simply using the ranking system and dividing the honor by a factor of 10.

https://vanilla-wow-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Honor_System#CP_for_Honorable_Kills

Post 1.8 CP+ numbers divided by 10 was your prepatch HK number.
Rank 1 - 198 (20)
Rank 2 - 210 (21)
Rank 3 - 221 (22)
Rank 4 - 233 (23)
Rank 5 - 246 (25)
Rank 6 - 260 (26)
Rank 7 - 274 (27)
Rank 8 - 289 (29)
Rank 9 - 305 (31)
Rank 10 - 321 (32)
Rank 11 - 339 (34)
Rank 12 - 357 (36)
Rank 13 - 377 (38)
Rank 14 - 398 (40)

The 3 digit number was the original vanilla value for an HK, the number in parathesis is the amount you got on prepatch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsgImO4Dh7U
This video proves this information hands down.

Every single kill in this video can be matched alongside this ranking list.
Everything from The HWL kill giving 40 undiminished honor at 13:25…
At 2:05 we have +27 on a rank 11 because he was killed twice (-20%) already…
2:20 stone guard kill for 26 honor undiminished.

THAT’S WHY WE DIDN’T HAVE AN ISSUE GRINDING IN PREPATCH.

This is why we knew the grind wasn’t insane but didn’t remember exactly what it was that didn’t make the grind insane. Instead we are going off of 2.4.3 brackets which put us in a lowbie bracket while also giving us the normalized 14 honor per kill as a level 60 as our HK honor when it shouldn’t have been that way.

So 19.8 honor to 39.8 honor per kill is prepatch accurate. This value is divided across the players that are close to the kill when it happens.

What is happening right now is that a flat 14 honor per kill is being divided across the players that are close to the kill when it happens.

And since Diminishing returns WERE active during the TBC prepatch, this is why there wasn’t an HK farming meta as the kills diminished naturally through extended gameplay anyway.

TLDR - Take the Vanilla honor system, divide it by a factor of 10, that’s how much HK honor we were getting per kill during the prepatch. That information is backed up by the video I linked and there are tons of kills in the video that reinforce this…at least half of them are solo kills.

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Some good DD there. Thanks

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Good stuff!

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I just hope they figure it out up there.

I would think its funny if the 2.4 removal of diminishing returns was still in place after they fixed it, but they would likely reimplement the diminishing returns when fixing the HKs and remove the diminishing returns after TBC releases.

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Considering that they keep unflagging troll posts that are lying and posting misinformation I think someone at blizzard does not want anyone in rank 14 gear at pre-patch.

I am seeing a lot of strange behavior by blizzard in the last few weeks.

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Excellent investigation work Zinqf, props for getting to the bottom of this.

So the root issue really is just that we’re using 2.4.3 HKs instead of actual 2.0. That explains why it isn’t matching up with anyone’s memories.

As I said in the other thread it makes sense that at a certain point in BC they removed Rank from being a consideration in the amount of honor given. Over time, the % of players that were new to BC and thus had no rank kept growing. So at that late in the game it was reasonable to remove rank as a consideration in how much honor is given from an HK.

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yep this tbh

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Would also add the following…

Honor was additionally balanced AFTER the prepatch by “Concerted Efforts”, a patch addition that reenabled the honor vendors that allowed you to get honor per turn in of 1 WSG, 1 AB, 1 EotS and 1 AV mark that was repeatable.

https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_2.4.0
https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Quest:Concerted_Efforts_(2)

Since you needed to be 61 to do EotS, this was only available after TBC release.
So when they eventually normalized the HK values later on, things like Concerted Efforts in 2.4.0 were able to fill the gap to convert the extra marks to honor…something that we would definitely not have access to right now.

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10

Yep.

This is another case of what I call phase/patch misalignment. We saw this in Classic with Molten Core/BWL being so easy*. We had crazy good dungeon blues that originally did not come until patch 1.10 which corresponded to Classic phase 5. But we had them available from day 1 of Classic, which was phase 1.

*Yes I know they would have been easy even with progressive itemization, but having so much better gear than what we actually had in Vanilla made them even easier.

If prepatch is “phase 0” of BC, then we have phase 0 content (that being, the prepatch honor grind) but with a phase 5 system in place. The other parts of the game that are supposed to go along with that phase 5 system (concerted efforts) aren’t there yet because we’re not in that phase.

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There are all sorts of phase/patch misalignment that are causing multiple nerfs to honor that were never experienced at any point during TBC.

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good point on this as well

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Yeah this needs to be higher up and should be the main point of discussion.

Just yelling and ranting in comments to Blizz isn’t a clear request. Just saying broadly “we want more honor” isn’t even specific. We need to say we want the HKs to give honor like they did in the actual BC prepatch, not patch 2.4.3.

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15

I really think that Blizzard probably get annoyed when people actually do research into this stuff that proves them wrong.

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17

bump for facts. Im running out of patience. Let us have fun. you ruined prepatch launch day and now ruining my entire pre-patch experience…tick tock.

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This makes sense, hopefully it will be read by those who call the shots.

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Bump for incompetent Blizzard employees to see. How the heck did they even get their job anyway?

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Human resources department probably controls Blizzard, if an employee makes a decision they are right no matter what. Cant hurt any feelings now can they.

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Bump for great justice

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Bump for feedback.

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Wow actual DD? God forbid someone at blizz do this before applying an enormous sweeping patch that affects the whole player base … hmmmm