Thats all I needed to know to not watch it.
(puts out a lovely tray of cookies in support of something about um⌠this topic has no relevance to me)
![:cookie:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/cookie.png?v=6" ":cookie:")
Nah. There were legitimately people that do like normal / heroic raiding that just got abused by ML groups, mythic guild trials, and whatever else you could name. There were posts galore about this argument from both sides.
Thatâs why I rarely come to GD lol
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The whole point is they lost the case for the âDOTAâ name, thus DOTA2 came to be what it is today. The original mod was built on their engine and they felt they had the rights to it. They lost. They got burned on it.
Overwatchâs engine was designed for internal-use only. Thereâs nothing more to it. They are under no obligation to release the full engine to the public. If they want to make a map editor for players to use, cool. Some obstacles require time and effort to work through.
If you think itâs easy and Blizzard in incompetent, then jump into Maya and prove them wrong.
I havenât been around as long as many of you, but I read this article
https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/5g94nn/an-oral-history-of-azeroths-most-influential-guild
which talks about how elitist jerks were hired as devs back in the day - and this quote reminded me of the section which talks about how they would kick people out of their discussion groups if they talked about feel without producing data.
I get that data provides better feedback, but when those of us without the knowledge, time, or, interest in testing builds and comparing data sets we donât have from prior expansions talk about something - especially when many of us say something âour class feels like crapâ - even though we donât have the data to back that up - it still needs to be heard.
Saying âonly a handful merit a discussion with a devâ implies what? We donât have the knowledge? We are incapable of understanding nuances? That a discussion with a dev couldnât (or shouldnât) include moments of learning from each other? That if I canât spell out DPS variances between tiers and major patch changes in technical terms my opinion or view is garbage, or that it canât be changed as I learn from communicating with the dev?
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Iâll pass. I have working knowledge of Maya for Animation but Iâll get lost in the development pipeline for sure ![:smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/smile.png?v=6" ":smile:")
Is that what they built overwatch using?
Then youâre clearly blind, trolling, or some combination of the two. There have been multiple topics on the matter since news of this broke and its always been a split of people listing reasons why it shouldnât be removed and people that are glad it was removed.
Of course they felt they had the rights to it. They are a bunch of greedy people. But they didnât, and they had already benefited greatly from DotA. Do you really think all those WC3 sales were to play WC3? lmaoâŚway more people were playing DotA than the actual game.
They are under no obligation to release a map editor, but if they donât, itâs a pathetic sign of their greed.
And lmao why do I have to do 3d modeling work for them? They arenât paying me.
EJ didnât shut down those types of discussions. And this is kind of feedback they want from the general playerbase. Most players cannot back up their claims of âmy spec is crap, pls buffâ â you need combat logs and some of your smarter players to analyze potential improvements. Telling them how a spec feels is fine; itâs what I focus on during Alpha/Beta too. They can already do the numbersânumbers are easy. Making it fun is tough.
Many folks from EJ were hired on as developers and engineers, correct. They were arguing simulations and spreadsheets. If you didnât have any numbers to back up your claims, youâre wasting their time. Thatâs why people get kicked out of their discussions â making claims without evidence is the exact opposite of their craft. Itâs not because âtheyâre too dumb to understand it,â their arguments are regressive to the discussion.
When I say only a handful merit a discussion, itâs specifically about making targeted changes to produce a result. You need to come up to their level, basically.
Iâve been doing this sort of thing for 8+ years and Iâve had the chance to talk about issues and potential changes (during this past BlizzCon; gotta know which parties to go to). When you actually get to talk about your ideas, they donât talk down to you (they are certainly not elitist in tone). They are genuinely interested and want to talk about these sorts of things. But when you get them going, the difference in shear knowledge is very apparent.
Most players simply cannot convey their feelings in an effective manner, or they simply do not go into enough detail. If you get a 1-on-1, sure theyâll ask the right questions and get the feedback they need. When you have an online forum, thereâs thousands of voices fighting for attention. As mentioned earlier, you kinda need to come up to their level.
Specifically, âI like/dislike X because A, B, and C.â Being able to describe A, B, and C in a critical manner is important. They tend to go one step further and consider the impacts of adjusting A,B, and C and factor in D, E, and F.
If you can describe A, B, and C youâre worth having in the discussion. If youâre capable of talking about A, B, C, D, E, and FâŚyouâre one of the few who merit that 1-on-1.
Most feedback is âX is bad, figure it out.â And itâs helpful to identify thatâs thereâs an issue somewhere, but yeah⌠itâs not really important towards finding potential solutions.
There has been more cases of Class Developers communicating with the playerbase, but unfortunately they donât want them to talk to the playerbase.
The famed Class Developer âxelnathâ was responsible for the excellent design of Warlocks in Mist. He had a secret email list that he sent to many warlock theory-crafters that often had amazing input & ideas
In Warlords, he was fired because he didnât like the direction of class design for Warlocks. Ever since that incident, I havenât seen a single developer that involved himself in the community.
Xelnath has a blog where he goes in-deph, but Iâm afraid the new forums wonât allow me to post the site ![:confused:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/confused.png?v=6" ":confused:")
Youâre a druid. You should be on Dreamgrove discord. Ping me the link and Iâll post it here.
Or wrap it incode tags.
I hear you and get your point re: forums.
I will say, Iâve spent a good deal of my career working in communication and team building, even with some tech companies back in the early 2000âs - and one of biggest mistakes I see people across all industries (and life in general) have is the unwillingness to separate their superior knowledge of the details from a customer or laymanâs experience of the product. It shouldnât be on the customer to understand how it works, it should be on the people producing the experience to understand the consumerâs experience.
Just an opinion, but one Iâve seen so, so many highly intelligent people fail to get and completely miss the point with their target audience.
When I see the frustration around so many topic on the forums on Blizzâs ability to communicate, or on changes people donât understand, this is what I see happening⌠the kind of âivory towerâ unwillingness to see how us pleebs are experiencing things.
Thanks for the response though. Always good to have a better understanding.
(and apologies to OP for kind of drifting off topic)
Now this is an issue, just because Iâm still having fun means Iâm a âwhite knightâ or lying? To a degree I have to agree with Sy, many posters that are unhappy donât seem to understand that their personal feelings are not universally shared and ridcule those that donât feel the way they do.
Everyone speaks from their own PoV, how else would anyone playing the game speak? That is what the forums are for, for each of us to express how we personally view the game and any improvements that would make it better for us personally and discuss our PoV with other players.
This is the wrong approach to this discussion. Unlike the other games that the user is referencing, Overwatch is not a mod centric system and was not developed to function like a mod centric system, for this same reason LoL doesnât have a map editor either. Blizzard is exorcising their control over their assets because certain types of modding may conflict with their overall game design. I doubt that releasing mod kits would be too complicated, a sentiment from experience with the development side of things, but itâs not the design they want for their game.
On a different note, I donât see how DOTA2 plays into this discussion. The creators used public accessible tools to develop game modes outside of being under a contract. While blizzard owns the assets used to make the original DOTA, they did not commission nor were entitled to exclusive rights to the design that was created nor the title, since the only the assets and its use with in the game were the property of blizzard.
Yes but then he blamed master looter changed on jealous players, he ignored that the behaviour of mythic raiders was deemed the problem by blizzard in the first place. Do you know what no one in this thread has done? Produced any evidence to back up what he said.
Iâd blame the market shift heading towards instant gratification, short-term gameplay/rewards systems, and a single-player mentality.
Jealous players? Lol.
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The existence of people approving of the master looter is not proof that they asked for the master looter change. I think it was a good change but to preserve player choice i would have been happy with ML requiring 100% guild but that would not have solved blizzard real problem.