That’s what they thought about the costs with azerite reforging.
They were wrong.
With posts like yours I always lose more faith in the community with each day.
The difference being the top 1% is justifiably picking the most optimal. Everyone else is just shooting themselves in the foot to pretend they’re capable of the top 1%. This is a community problem, not a Blizzard problem.
I tried to explain this to him but he doesn’t get it.
The restriction on azerite pieces versus the restriction on covenants is actually worse with covenants. At least with azerite traits you could just keep farming until you got the ones you wanted.
And then keep all the other pieces if you ever wanted to switch back in the future, at no gold expense.
And if you show the stream you know people are obsessed and unhealthy enough to keep reforging which is why conduits are gonna be in some form of semi permanence so you dont get to change them like azerite
That is what you dont, the devs and Ion DOESNT WANT YOU TO KEEP CHANGING BUILDS, you are meant to stick to one and have strengths and weaknesses
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You poor baby.
minmaxing is the big dumb.
They did the same crap with flying and the same people defended it some people on here just aren’t worth trying to debate with. If blizz was to change their mind tomorrow certain people would swear up and down they were in favor of w/e blizzard wanted.
nah, bad mindset for development
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergent_gameplay
your players will find or create their own fun, why get in the way?
entire genres of games have been sparked from emergent gameplay
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While this is true, we all know that any class/spec can do M+ outside of the epeen flexing levels which only exist for bragging rights anyway. The content that actually matters is balanced so any spec can complete it.
It’s absolutely a player issue if you treat every M+ like a super high one because you’re blindly parroting what happens in a +25 as being what needs to happen everywhere and try to perpetuate the idea everything needs to be treated like fringe cases.
In fact I think that right there is the problem. It should stop at the last level that legit matters (15?) and not keep going into the “this doesn’t matter but I want to show how awesome I am” territory where you need to get super creative. That would fix a lot of problems IMHO.
I have noticed - I am saying that is what Preach and the people who agree with him would want in future expansions.
I do not know why they keep implementing new systems when the class specs and talents themselves are not even balanced, they want to give you a choice but at the end everyone goes to wowhead to see what talents and what stats are the best for your spec. Instead of changing your class gameplay they are only creating more systems that make you grind for 2 years and after that new exp comes out and all the grind was for nothing. Also without even balancing the talents or specs themselves.
Am I wrong? Arent the talents supposed to provide different types of gameplay? 3 Different specs with 3 different talent trees? If you do the math why cant I play warlock in countless different ways? With Balanced talents and specs?? Why add another system that wont even be balanced neither and that at the end everyone is gonna be using the same meta.
Its hilarious how Ion says that having a different spec or items its not a reason to not get you invited to pugs. Do they even play their game?
This is my biggest concern,
1- They dont play their game
2- They just want to implement new systems as if all the specs and talents wouldnt had a problem. (Look at shadowpriest lol)
Probably cuz some types of playing have lead to the unintended creation of a very toxic culture that actually hurts many players.
And here’s an even bigger issue tbh, we know we had a community problem for a long time, yet Preach even though he is a streamer and has the power to push to improve the community all he does is add to the toxicity by saying stuff like “You must be trolling to not be venthyr” and often times uses words like “trash” or “terrible” to describe underperforming specs which only adds to the toxicity.
If they know their way of playing is causing a problem, they cant go “Well I am technically I am not directly hurting other people so I ll keep doing my thing ignoring the consequences”
And since they didnt do anything, Blizzard decided to.
Of course that is one argument, the 2nd argument is likely the fact that there’s ways of playing the games wrong, speedrunning isnt how you are meant to play a single player game, it is allowed, doesnt mean it is designed or balanced around it.
More so for an mmo when wrong ways of playing have consequences to people who play the game the way it is supposed to be
and the last point would obviously be balance.
Blizzard doesnt balance raids to require 10 fire mages to be beaten, which means the people who playing fotm/meta just roflstomp easymode through a lot of content while people who have balanced comps have a harder time because that is how the game is balanced around.
You know, it was nice of Ion to have a conversation with Preach. This is the kind of communication the devs need to do. But it didn’t amount to anything in the end. They’re just gonna shove their systems down people’s throats, realize they failed and put the fall back plan in 9.2 or 9.3.
I like WoW, I want to like the game, and have fun playing it, and play with my friends. The way things are, I don’t think that’s possible anymore.
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And you could argue that it’s the community itself
Toxic individuals exist independently of WoW, this elitism exists all over the industry, and all over the world. Gatekeeping and Elitism is a human trait, I don’t believe a game should sacrifice one group’s method of play to curb it. It’s poisonous to community in itself, the debates spawned by the attempt have caused a divide.
This point is founded on a lack of information about him. He often discourages it, and says he’s fine with other people playing exactly how they want to. He’s even been anti-elitism in regards to Fallout, where he didn’t really want to try New Vegas at first because of the nature of new vegas fans. He’s not trying to dictate how everyone else plays with those statements.
I don’t hold it against you to interpret what he says that way, you’d have to watch him for a bit to get his stances, and I know you already disagree with him fundamentally.
They do not balance it around these players as is, and it shows in how long world first kills take.
It’s designed to be cleared while you accrue gear over a few weeks of killing bosses. Doing World First mythic is like playing a Halo LASO Campaign with a plasma pistol. It’s balls to the wall, and not intended play, but a perfectly valid challenge for players to tackle.
And I don’t agree that it has consequences on the playerbase, I believe communities themselves breed elitism naturally.
And this point
You seem to believe there won’t be the same thing in shadowlands, because of covenants. I’ve said recently what my prediction is for the meta, I’ll sum it up using your example.
There will be 4 listings for fire mage on warcraft logs, based on covenants. There will be an overall high performance spec within fire mage and covenants. Players will grab the guides, start the quest to switch if they need to, and shift the fire mage meta to the “best” covenant. This is not a behavior that can be corrected. People look for the path of least resistance, and if you’re playing the “best” fire mage, you’re an easy pick over the “worst” fire mage.
they did the extra azerite ring in 8.1 I think, could be earlier than 9.2 
Yes.
But that really wasn’t the point of his test? His stated premise was just to see how it was for a new player period. Not see how it was for players playing suboptimal specs.
But what if the build I like IS the best build? No Ice Lance build is listed as the best ST/2 target cleave build for frost mages, but I really enjoy watching my Glacial Spike hitting 1.3M with my noob 460 ilvl mage.
9.1 would be nice, but even then it wouldn’t change much.
When no other solutions exist, anyone trying to fix such a problem has my support, if there was an alternative I would support it, but there isnt.
That’s the problem I do watch him, I know his “Stance”, the issue is if you watch the videos he always without intention adds to the toxic culture by using words like trash or garbage to describe specs and the fact that he started the meme of “If you dont go venthyr unless you are trolling” is the problem.
Yeah I know Fin was the one that said it, the issue is he platformed it and once he said it in his youtube channel threads started popping up in GD about that exact thing.
He has the power, he is far to passive about what he is doing, him talking about him not being pro elitism in some sections of videos which not everyone sees while everyone hears about the time “Preach said X class is trash”
I dont have problem with Preach rly, I enjoy his videos and streams often, but he is not doing much to solve the problem actively.
ANother example of his passiveness is his chat, during the Ion stream where Ion said BLM check his chat and Taliesin’s chat, you see DRASTIC differences, Tali bans bigots and actively goes against them, Preach is like “Yeah I know these ppl are bad but wont do much about it”
I mean you do realize world first ending in 2 weeks, 3 at max is too fast right? That is not long at all, they are going crazy since it is a race after all so these people understandable use even 0.2% advantages
Exactly, which means all classes can once geared clear the bosses if they are able to deal with mechanics and perform well.
But the group with the 10 firemages will roflstomp through many fights and even fail some minor mechanics and still get it.
That is the issue with many people in the community, firstly they dont understand the difference between optimal and viable, secondly they dont understand that content does not require you to be optimal to beat content and thirdly because of their ignorance and delusions of skill they often try to attack others who sometimes are better players than them that “they are gimping themselves or dragging the team down” for not playing meta.
This needs to be fixed.
No I dont believe that, meta will still exist.
The thing is most people will no longer be able to play meta unless they level 4 of each, and most people even tryhards wont do that because they also need to gear 4 of each and now that m+ only gives one item, it is gonna be suffering.
That means many people, including many high end ones will be forced to play the game the way the devs want, you have weaknesses and strengths, and you play all types of content with that.
This means these people will be forced to PLAY SUB OPTIMALLY at some form of content sooner or later, and most likely wont die because nobody dies or suffers because they arent 100% optimal on a m15
That’s the thing, Blizzard doesnt want people to switch back and forth, they learned from the azerite vendor so switching back and forth wont be a realistic option.
Especially when you lose your renown level, and most likely you ll lets say need lvl 10 renown to unlock all soulbind passives, good luck changing and grinding back up to level 10 only to lose that when you want to change again.
They no longer have the option to truly change.
Uhm nothing? Unless you get delusions of grandeur and go around saying everyone who doesnt follow your build is gimping themselves or dragging down the team there’s nothing wrong with that, if anything you are lucky that your build is performing well.
I dont even know this Ralph guy, but just from his response here on this post, i already muted him wtf