Possible Frost DK Fix?


#1

Since the community seems about 40/60 liking/hating Breath of Sindragosa (as far as I can tell), I think Blizz should try their hardest to make both Obliteration and Breath of Sindragosa builds both viable, rather than Obliteration being significantly behind.

My idea for a fix is thus-

Killing Machine: “Your auto attack critical strikes have a chance to make your next Obliterate automatically critically strike and deal XX% more damage.”

Since BoS got a straight buff via the rune generation before and after, Obliteration should get its own buff. You could even bake the “and deal XX% more damage” into Obliteration if you don’t want it to give a bit more extra damage to those using Breath of Sindragosa.

…And while I’m here.
-In my opinion- the level 56, 60, and 90 talent options seem clunky/lackluster.
(These might be somewhat wrong, since Breath of Sindragosa made me drop Frost DK at the start of BfA.)

56:
Inexorable Assault does very little damage, and is boringly passive.
Icy Talons is ridiculously difficult to keep up
Cold Heart is clunky imo, and just isn’t as impressive as the legendary from Legion was.

60:
Avalanche is boringly passive, and does relatively little damage.
Frozen Pulse is the most boring passive I’ve ever seen. It’s “oh, you’re starved? well, here’s some extra auto attack damage so you can feel better”
Frostscythe is FUN. I LIKE it. Too bad it does literally nothing single target, so it’s useless most fights.

90:
Gathering Storm is like Cold Heart in that it just clunks up the rotation.
Glacial Advance. Boo. Nobody likes it, and it does like 0 damage. Get it out.
Frostwyrm’s Fury seems odd. The 3 min cooldown doesn’t line up with Pillar of Frost, it’s just a big burst of damage, then it’s gone. It’s also a GCD just gone. I don’t know how I feel about it.

So there, there’s my opinions and possible fix. I -LOVED- Antorus Frost DK, and I honestly miss it. Hopefully Blizzard does something else, other than just loving their BoS child more than Obliteration.


#2

100% agree with your ideas. Frost DK needs some serious rework.


(Krissignacia) #3

yeah ive been saying this for a awhile now.

GA is great in paper but its really buggy like the pathing is awful. gets stuck on everything

IA is coo, but as you and lots of other people have said WE WANT FULL FROST DAMAGE. and this turns it into a scrounge strike


#4

Frost as a whole already got a buff regardless of talent: More Runes via Runic Empowerment and more Runic Power via Frost Fever.
I agree Obliteration need some tuning to make it comparable, but we shouldn’t ignore the global Frost buffs thats already happened.

True at the moment, but on 8.2 PTR we have more resources to keep it up. I doubt its going to overtake the snapshot of Pillar and trinkets that Cold Heart gets.

Yeah Avalanche needs to be tuned up, so its damage is viable.
Frozen Pulse is great, but its going to lose some value in 8.2 when we are starved much less.
Last I checked Frostscythe was viable for using on single target with Killing Machine procs, it just loses value when we are less starved.

Gathering Storm is sooo much more powerful in 8.2.
We have many more Runes to spend, so it is much easier to boost it up to 10 stacks fast, and with Frozen Tempest Azerite Trait the damage skyrockets.
The resource gains of 8.2 means it might even be possible to refresh Remorseless Winter at its 10 stacks, exactly like Antorus Frost DK!

Glacial Advance is actually the strongest talent on the row for AoE, but has problems fitting in with Breath of Sindy windows. Also unlike Legion it doesn’t get stuck on fences anymore, the pathing issues were fixed in BFA beta, when we reported the heck out of it.

Frostwyrm’s Fury I agree is rather boring, and will probably still be strongest because of Pillar of Frost and trinket snapshottting.


#5

All wonderful points.

I agree that I should’ve acknowledged the rune regen buffs- it feels MUCH better now. I tried playing the PTR Obliteration build and its actually a lot of fun now. I didn’t actually try ALL the possible builds, so I’m going to go give it a shot today.

The issue still remains, though, that Obliterate and Frost Strike really don’t do enough damage. I miss seeing massive numbers whenever I use a killing machine proc, and it -feeling- powerful.

Hopefully Blizz does something. I want to Frost it up next patch so bad.


#6

I also agree friend
my opinions are the following
that the frost trike also takes advantage of the killing machine as in MOP, it is really annoying when you have a killing machine but you do not have runes to use obliteration, I only say it to take advantage of lost time!
that the dk can use 2h weapon, do obliterate right now it does not feel good, I feel sick when doing obliterates like that, I want to make critical obliterates with a 2h weapon to bust heads and have a bonus for hitting enemies with fever frost

frost strike I do not use it at all, only when I do not have runes, I think there should be a rotation that needs frost strike to be able to use it.
they could make fury of Frostwyrm have a 1 minute cd or that their damage would be maximized if we managed to accumulate certain things, but a fury of Frostwyrm like this is now boring.
I hate that the paladins are transformed and kill me, I know I have defensive but that is not enough, I need mobility!


#7

I like the Obliteration change, but until they change Obliterate so it does Frost Damage (and therefore scales with our mastery) it’s going to be 100% useless.


#8

I hear a lot of people asking for 2h frost to return, and however cool I think that would be, unfortunately because of how the artifact weapons were set up I don’t think it’ll ever be coming back.

And as for Obliterate dealing frost damage, perhaps they could make Killing Machine make it deal half frost damage, or make mastery scale Obliterate damage too, but I don’t know how well they’d be able to make that balanced. It would help shift the spec into Obliteration being viable too, though.


#9

There were some recent changes to ice cap which is nice, but obliteration still needs help.


(Vahrok) #10

The whole class needs to be gutted and reworked. Blizz need to pick the class fantasy of the FDK, build around it, and stick with it. Then the talents need to reflect the design choice. They say we are supposed to be hard striking juggernauts that are slow but hard to stop. Well conceptually it’s a flawed design. Everything we do is a build up. Procs, stacks, buffs (must be on target and waste time for it b/c gcd). All of this requires us to be on target to do. Problem is that even with all of this build up the pay off doesn’t reflect the work put in. Where as for me to do a big Fstrike crit I need 5 stacks of offhand, used 50% of my runes for az talents to kick in, 1 proc on mainhand, PoF, or by comparison a paladin gets 3 holy power and pushes 1 button. The damage of that 1 button outclasses what our FStrike does 6 ways to Sunday as well. Where as I need to keep smacking and be on target as a slow moving class to get a rime proc for a big hit, time for IA to build, CH to build (also sacing our crowd control for burst lol), other classes again deal more than that damage with 1 button. Our ‘big damage’ is on a 3 min CD and everything is nerfed in pvp.

Then worst of all is Breath. We are built around it for the sake of PvE and even then it is clunky. It is build up incarnate for a DECENT pay off, but only in PvE. In PvP it is worthless.

Class fantasy I actually like how the slow moving aspect of the DK is right now. Many DKs will scream “we need more mobility” no we don’t we have anti cc out the butt and for that the fantasy fits and works well. We DO EVENTUALLY get to the target, the problem is we must waste time when we are there to deal sub par pay off.

I can suck up the class isn’t flashy. The majority of our talents are physically unnoticeable. But it has to be effective. If I could recommend anything to make this class work better it would be make damage instantaneous and meaningful. Also get rid of this passive sub theme for the FDK of cleave. Avalanche, Frozen pulse, Scythe, GA, GS, should all take a back seat to the concept of “When he gets to you, he hurts.” not “When he gets to you, he will build up to unimpress. Well… if you are still there to allow him to hit you.”

Edit: Also make viable options for talents. No one will pick: Deaths reach, prema, wraith walk (jesus get rid of this cancer already, you cant save it). These are no factors as they provide no special perk over their best in slot. Give a choice.

Also the whole rune and runic power talent row should just be worked into the class. The most optimal will always be taken. Pick one, make it baseline, give a whole row of meaningful choices.

None of this matters though as all of this requires too much work and an overhaul requires and expansion. Mark my words they will do another frost last min overhaul (but keeping breath being clunky as ever because they love it for some reason) like they did last time and the time before.

2nd Edit: While you are at it, ad some actual DK looking mog items in this game. Jesus christ DHs, Rogues, and Paladins look more like DKs than DKs.


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