Also it isn’t in the spirit or actual ERA before TBC prepatch, so no.
Off to the barrens you go.
Don’t lose this opportunity to bring back the greatest change to ERA we’ve seen since its launch in 2019! Bring back MoS!
I’ve seen Asma be sardonic and trust me she is not hating or speaking with ire here. You’re simply reading it as aggressive because she doesn’t want the same things as you. You’re being unfair at best.
Also, the original petition to remove MoS was created by an alliance player, and in fact some of the loudest people were the alliance guild on Remulos, where you can’t even sell Rend MCing services. Try not to downplay or upsell people disagreeing with you, sometimes it really is as simple as wanting different experiences in a game.
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Asking for changes to Era all in the name of some third party leaderboard is cringe.
I sure am glad the devs know better.
…but keep screaming at your wall.
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Wrong! You and a few others seem to think Blizz caters to WCL. This is a line of thinking that is getting away from the topic at hand. Nobody cares your opinion on WCL because Blizzard didn’t make those decisions based on anything WCL.
Sorry Elron MoS has been cancelled for good.
Terrible mistake, but they fixed it.
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Haha! “For good”. I want to see the look on your face when it returns!
Revert the revert, Blizzard!
Bring back MoS!
I can’t remember the last time I actually saw multiple layers. The population is healthy but hasn’t been high enough for that in quite some time. I mean sure… remove them I guess but it literally doesn’t matter.
Boons are sort of a pandora’s box kinda thing. They’ve been out for too long to revert at this point and to be honest it is quite nice being able to play your character up until the moment it’s time to raid. I don’t think you could get many people on board with reverting boons who actually raid Naxxramas every week.
The old ranking system is definitely something I’d agree with. I can’t help but feel like my accomplishment of warlord on this priest, which I hit with the old honor system, is a bit diminished now that every warrior and their mother is high warlord. 500k is super easy to get. But this is also something that’s been changed for perhaps too long at this point and I really just don’t see them reverting it as much as I’d be in favor of that.
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They could remove layers certainly, but if the population ever spiked back up again people would be clamouring for them to get added right back. Folks seem to like to forget that it was a solution to a problem. If you remove the solution, the problem is still there. I’m all for another solution of people want to accept a different change, but there’s gotta be something there.
Same goes for boons. They were a solution to a problem. If you remove them, the problem comes right back. Something had to be done because there were actually a lot of people playing WoW, they just weren’t logging in. I think I heard someone say that “people should have enough alts now that they can raid log” but I don’t think that’s a fair assumption to make.
I definitely feel you here and agree that the achievement of Rank 14 in the old system felt a lot more meaningful. Unfortunately, like the other two, these changes happened to address a problem and whether or not we like the solution, it absolutely succeeded in what it intended to do.
However, unlike the other two, the solution for this one sits less easily with me. Both layering and boons were a net positive for my WoW experience and how I expect the game to be. Some things got lost with the introduction of those solutions but I personally find them to be acceptable. A big loss on the PvP system change though was the community engagement.
If you set aside, for a minute, the toxicity in the community and the outright exploitation (pool parties), at its core you had a lot of people organizing and collaborating in the pursuit of a common goal. To me that’s the very essence of what makes Era an amazing game! So while the PvP changes actually enable me to pursue PvP rank and are therefore technically a good thing for me, I’m sad that a really big aspect of community in WoW was the fallout. I don’t think we should go back to the old system as it was, but if Blizzard wanted to take another go at this, preferably one that had a hefty amount of discussion from all sides of the playerbase, I would be behind it.
I would say they could maybe compromise and bring back the old system and just get rid of decay or something but at this point I think it really is just too late. Too many people have already benefited from the new system. The damage is done.
I think removing decay would absolutely be helpful. Personally I think the bracket stacking and pool party behaviours would need to be addressed somehow, but I’m curious about whether or not you have any insights from someone who went through that. Were those things that were a part of your R14 run, or that you experienced at all?
I don’t think it’s too late for a change here. Yea, some people got R14 “the easy way” but what’s done is done. I don’t think that’s an appropriate reason to commit to what might not be the best design for Era. If nothing else, it’s worth the conversation to see if there are other options that can be explored.
I really put a lot of stock into accepting that mistakes were made and trying to do better going forward. I just want things to be more open so we don’t get these changes dropped on us and then later we get all these insights that the devs maybe could have utilized.
Side note: Where’s our dang Era Community Council players!? 
Well I only hit r13, but yes. There was definitely some pool partying and bracket stacking. There was also a fellow that was consistently breaking brackets so I got some extra honor to be safe on my last week.
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This is what I disliked about the PVP change. I really enjoyed the community aspects of the old system and I got to know some amazing people. I probably wouldn’t have otherwise as they were from several guilds. I liked the aspects of cheering each other on. Plus I liked helping people understand how that old system worked.
This, in addition to just having fun running the BGs and getting better personally and with a team.
While community aspects of Era are still a thing they really aren’t that much anymore with pvp, especially how it’s going now with premading. It’s all about the personal grind which is comparatively boring IMO.
The annoying part to me was all of the people on here who thought my concerns were about prestige and gear even when I explained they were about community where I then got attacked for what was projected onto me. Even saying that I enjoyed the ride and the memories made people angry.
Layers are a tougher one, they are needed sometimes like with launches but IMO they are the primary cause of the 99.9% 25k Cata servers. Blizzard is closing all the smaller Cata servers down too and the only escape is BB RP PVE. So if you don’t like big servers you’re out of luck there. I think the direction pre-TBCC was better where another layer was opened because covid hit but things didn’t go crazy and after a few months of it being in that layer was taken away and there was even a blue post made about it.
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So you decide 1 change is too much, but support past changes that changed the game in major ways?
In terms of “…people organizing and collaborating in the pursuit of a common goal.” The change we are proposing, which is objectively a much smaller change than the chrono boon and PVP changes, would create a common goal!
I’ve outlined these in other posts so I’ll save the forum for other posts…
I see what you are saying, but it is contradictory to other claims in your post that I stated above.
While I was opposed to the PVP changes, I can tell you that any decently populated server on the old ranking system had bracket stacking and pool party behavior. It’s what made the old PVP system what it was tbh.
With that said, and setting aside nochanges for a minute, how do you feel about these as overall game mechanics as you look back on them? Like, you got through it and achieved what you wanted to achieve, but do you feel that was a positive experience that you think others should have too?
Now bringing nochanges back into the equation, does that change anything for you? For example, did you feel that it wasn’t really a very positive experience but because that’s how Vanilla is, we should just accept it for what it is? Do you have other thoughts about it?
I appreciate your insights here, I never went through the PvP grind in Classic. I got to R11 (I think) in Vanilla but it was a very different thing back then. I had no intention of R14, I just liked doing PvP and so I ran flags for premades on my server when I had time.
No, I’ve been pretty clear the whole time that I try to view each change through its own lens. I don’t want changes for Era but I accept that sometimes changes are necessary and that sometimes there will be fallout for this.
Like, I wish we didn’t need the boon and that Blizzard didn’t have to make a change there, but they absolutely did and we’re all better for it, even if there was something that was lost as a result.
Feel free to go through my post history if you wanna get a broader view of my thoughts. Also, understand that how I feel about all of this has been evolving throughout these discussions. I think very much differently about changes in Era now than I did even in 2019.
Also if by…
… you mean MoS, then I’ve been pretty clear on my views for that. If you’re looking for competitive fairness, disallow Alliance from getting the buff entirely, don’t give them an easy way to get it. That’s just my view though and this thread’s purpose was to try to invite discussion around alternative solutions than just MoS or #nochanges. I’ve landed on a third option (remove it for Alliance) but that doesn’t mean it’s the only solution. I very much encourage you to think about how you might “solve” this differently.
I agree with you that the next best option is to remove it for Alliance so people don’t even have to worry about getting it, so no need for me to think of a 2nd option.
However, the point still stands that I think the best option is to bring the change back…
Sorry not trying to be attacking. It’s hard to remember that some people aren’t just here to name call and such. Apologies!
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Bracket stacking felt good. I felt a mutual respect for my fellow ranker and appreciated that most people were respecting the brackets. Definitely an overall positive IMO.
Pool parties felt kinda weird. Spending hours getting 15 HKs on a bunch of different level ones is definitely not what I’d call PvP, but it’s one of those odd quirks that was kind of interesting. I didn’t hate it but I also don’t miss it.
I’m very much of the opinion that in general Era should be as #nochanges as possible. Weird quirks should be accepted as part of the game. I see it as something akin to speed running old games. There’s weird things about those old games that make speed running interesting. There are “bugs” that people exploit and you should never “fix” something like that after the community brings it into the meta or ever really.
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You’re welcome to that viewpoint and I understand why you have it, I’m just looking for an alternative. The core of my intent here is to ask that we accept both sides of the argument as it stands.
One viewpoint, yours, is that having MoS makes it so much more convenient to get that buff so you can remain competitive on the leaderboards. While I may not share that viewpoint and have a dim view of “parse culture” and the impact it’s having on the playerbase, I accept that this is something you’re passionate about and that humans, in general, like to be competitive about things. If I acknowledge that, I can’t help but accept your point of view here.
The other viewpoint is that Horde having WCB and Alliance not is just another one of those pieces of Classic that gives it charm. It was never meant to be balanced and that’s very obvious when you look at other differences in the factions. It does look like they were meant to be good at different things and in different ways. We know, with the benefit of 20 years of hindsight, that from a balanced gameplay perspective that wasn’t really all that good and this has since been corrected in a multitude of ways as WoW has progressed through various expansions. However, there exists a large group of players for whom balance isn’t really all that important and they are specifically here to embrace those imbalances and enjoy what Era has to offer.
Just like I don’t necessarily share your viewpoint on being a competitive DPS parser, I also don’t necessarily share the viewpoint that all imbalances are good. But just as accept your viewpoint as valid, I also accept this viewpoint as valid. So now I’m working from a place where both views are valid and looking for a solution that enables both parties to achieve their goals. For me, that’s disabling Alliance from getting WCB but I was hoping that if people could do this, it could generate other options that might be even better suited to Classic Era and the game it represents 
So I don’t hold your opinion against you, but if you wanted to try to set it aside for a bit and think outside the box here, I think that might be really beneficial. But if you don’t think so, that’s ok too! It’s always worth a shot.
Thanks for your insights. However I feel about these topics, I appreciate hearing your perspectives on it. If I disagree with you around any of these points down the line please know that I’ve read them and I acknowledge them. For whatever that’s worth.
In full effect.