Population numbers matter now. Is basically everyone boned?

[Poised-moon-guard]

Kul Tiras is probably doing fine, honestly, since we headed off the disasters that would affect their population before they really happened. Stormwind, in spite of being a backbone nation in the Alliance militarily, hasn’t had a major disaster happen in its homelands since the First and Second War, barring a few pre-patch events where Stormwind City was attacked. Kul Tiras and Stormwind are probably pretty equal in population and pretty well-off comparatively, especially since the latter was more than likely heavily bolstered by refugees from Lordaeron and other defunct human kingdoms.

The Three Hammers, ergo the united dwarves clans, are extremely well-off right now, and are the de-facto top dog nation in terms of both factions. While the Wildhammers did have some serious setbacks in both Cataclysm and then Legion, wherein the Highlands were overrun twice. Other than that, the dwarf clans haven’t suffered a major disaster on their lands in 300 years, since the War of Three Hammers, and could basically roll over anyone if they chose.

Orcs as well are, to be blunt, very good at multiplying, which was mitigated only by their originally harsh lifestyle. Barrens and Durotar are comparatively a walk in the park compared to the native habitat of orcs, who are considered adults, and fully grown, by age twelve (contrasted with humans who aren’t considered truly done growing and developing until their early twenties). This essentially means that an orc who was born in the camps could be a grandparent already. While the Siege of Orgrimmar seemed dire for orcs in general, it was later stated that ‘only a small number of orcs’ actually supported Garrosh, so in general they’re doing just fine.

Goblins, same deal, they’re doing pretty good for themselves, especially since they’re literally only separated via different cartels, and can swap whenever they please.

In contrast, gnomes are probably in dire straits to an extent. The Fall of Gnomeregan is often glossed over by Blizzard, but per lore it was an event on par with the Fall of Lordaeron to the Scourge, with a massive loss of life.

Most of the other Horde races are probably at least doing okay. In terms of Elves, ironically the Nightborne are probably doing the best of all of them, unlike the night elves they don’t seem to have any trouble with population growth, given the sheer number of outcasts we see on the Broken Isles, and yet Suramar itself was still very densely populated. Night elves took a fairly grievous hit, of course, but I don’t think they’re in danger of going extinct, though they’re not doing all that well.

Draenei apparently took one for the team during Argus and are militarily defunct, but they never had a large military so it might not be a huge issue with population.

[Ammea-moon-guard]

In contrast, gnomes are probably in dire straits to an extent. The Fall of Gnomeregan is often glossed over by Blizzard, but per lore it was an event on par with the Fall of Lordaeron to the Scourge, with a massive loss of life.

Mechagnomes aren’t much better off, providing I’m reading between the lines correctly. The ones we meet are a ragtag group of resistance fighters on the surface, the greatest bulk of the population got assimilated into the tiny Borg.

Night elves took a fairly grievous hit, of course, but I don’t think they’re in danger of going extinct, though they’re not doing all that well.

I don’t think their formerly insenescent based libidos have caught up to their death rate, like, remotely, and most of their civilian territory was systematically wiped out; they made a pretty big show of how many died in Astranaar, so I’m not so sure about that. I think they’re pretty hosed.

[Kisin-moon-guard (Kisin)]

I don’t think their formerly insenescent based libidos have caught up to their death rate, like, remotely, and most of their civilian territory was systematically wiped out; they made a pretty big show of how many died in Astranaar, so I’m not so sure about that. I think they’re pretty hosed.

I dunno how true that is. Astannar to Darnassus got wiped, but a large number did get evacuated. Enough to fill all of Stormwind’s inns and streets and then spill out to Goldshire.

Taking that into proper scale that should easily be thousands of individuals. Though sometimes I wonder if these stories are written with realistic scale in mind.

Even ignoring that Nighthaven is still majority night elven and a major Kaldorei city. It went entirely untouched. Same for all the night elves in Val’sharah which supports a couple decent sized villages. Then you account for all the Cenarion druids stationed around the world.

Night elves probably have a sustainable population still. Especially since, even with their low reproductive rate, they are functionally immortal and will survive another several thousand years if left alone.

Contrast that to say, the Darkspear who have repeatedly lost their only population center over and over for the last 30 years or so. Realistically there should be like… Five Darkspear left.

[Ammea-moon-guard]

Even ignoring that Nighthaven is still majority night elven and a major Kaldorei city.

It’s a Cenarian Circle outpost, bit of a difference from a “major Night Elven city.”

Especially since, even with their low reproductive rate, they are functionally immortal and will survive another several thousand years if left alone.

Uh, no, they’re not immortal, not even Warcraft immortal (which is insenescence, not true immortality), they lost that in Warcraft 3. They probably have centuries left to live, true, but their mortality rate’s majority doesn’t seem to be from old age, it seems to be from being murdered.

This is definitely more than enough to put them on the endangered species list.

[Kisin-moon-guard (Kisin)]

It’s a Cenarian Circle outpost, bit of a difference from a “major Night Elven city.”

It isn’t an outpost. It’s a city or town. Cenarion Hold was an outpost. Nighthaven has its own Inn and and a civilian population.

Uh, no, they’re not immortal, not even Warcraft immortal (which is insenescence, not true immortality), they lost that in Warcraft 3. They probably have centuries left to live, true, but their mortality rate’s majority doesn’t seem to be from old age, it seems to be from being murdered.

This is definitely more than enough to put them on the endangered species list.

I said functionally immortal. If your lifespan is in millennia you may as well be immortal compared to someone who’s life span is measured in decades.

And yes, their chief cause of death is murder. But we’re going into an “era of peace” which presumably means they won’t be getting murdered in mass anymore, which means they have thousands of years for their population to rebound eventually.

Night elves aren’t endangered yet. They might be after a few more wars but right now they have a decent base population to eventually build from.

[Carmageddon-bloodsail-buccaneers]

Hmmm…I agree that population numbers don’t really matter because they will always be whatever the story requires, but let’s rate the populations on a scale of 1-10 based on what we think they should be, with 1 being almost non-existent and 10 being robust and widespread.

Humans (aside from Kul Tirans): 4 - repeatedly reduced to refugee populations
Dwarves: 8 - few major population calamities
Night Elves: 5 - many evacuated
Gnomes: 2 - Chernobyl
Orcs: 4 - like humans, reduced to scattered refugee populations, though apparently reproduce amazingly quickly
Tauren: 3 - only recently got a home
Trolls (Darkspear): 2 - see Tauren, except even more recently
Forsaken: 6 - most evacuated?
Dranei: 2 - 1 spaceship
Blood Elves: 3 - 10% of what seems to have once been a largish population
Worgen: 2 -refugee population
Goblins: 1 - survivors of ONE shipwreck
Pandaren (Wandering Isle): 1 - it’s whoever can live on one giant turtle
Nightborne: 5 - survived a Legion invasion somewhat intact
Highmountain Tauren: 4 - fairly healthy nation but seems sparsely populated
Lightforged Dranei: 1 - survivors of one spaceship wreck, and the subsequent battles
Void Elves: 1 - should be like 6 guys
Mag’har: 2 - how long was the gate open? Not totally certain. Didn’t seem like long.
Dark Irons: 5 - still decent numbers in spite of some bad mistakes
Kul Tirans: 8 - Seem pretty healthy and spread out
Zandalari: 7 - one huge population centre but that’s about it.
Vulpera: 2 - hard to guesstimate, but they don’t have a real homeland
Mechagnomes: 3 A small city

[Faelia-ravenholdt]

There arent any ‘other’ cities. Ironforge is the only city. The rest of the kingdom is a total of what…4 or 5 small villages and a couple small guard outposts and thats it? Ironforge is a massive city, probably one of the biggest on Azeroth, with miles upon miles of tunnels and halls. Remember, it was once big enough to house all three clans at the height of their power.

There AREN’T any other cities but there use to be. Grim Batol USE to be the Wildhammer’s city and comparatively, it’s as big as (if not bigger then) Ironforge.
The Wildhammer’s didn’t take to the open-air Mountains of the Hinderlands until they Lost their City to the Orcs during the war.

Also, Blackrock Depths is undoubtably the largest Dwarven City ever, assuming we’re only seeing the Military and central civilian hub. And that’s not counting the city that use to exist above in the Burning Stepps.

[Ammea-moon-guard]

But we’re going into an “era of peace”

I’ll believe that when it’s been 4 expansions without blowing up a settlement.

[Throren-wyrmrest-accord (Throren)]

Grim Batol USE to be the Wildhammer’s city and comparatively, it’s as big as (if not bigger then) Ironforge.
The Wildhammer’s didn’t take to the open-air Mountains of the Hinderlands until they Lost their City to the Orcs during the war.

Well I was specifically talking about the Bropnzebeard clan.

Grim Batol was never part of the Kingdom of Ironforge. And the Wildhammers lost Grim Batol 250 years ago during the war of three hammers. The Dark Irons corrupted it and they abandoned it. The orcs moved into the centuries abandoned halls in the 2nd war.

Wildhammers have been living above ground for at least two centuries now.

Also Ironforge is THE biggest city. What we see in game is only one small fraction of the city. Its not bigger due to gameplay reasons. the city was big enough to house all three clans at their peak and and stretches from the mountain peak to the very depths.

going by old RPG lore, the portion of IF we see in game is about 1/7 of its total size.

[Faelia-ravenholdt]

Well I was specifically talking about the Bropnzebeard clan.

And I was referring to the Dwarves as a race in total, which still lost much in the past 250 years.

Also Ironforge is THE biggest city. What we see in game is only one small fraction of the city. Its not bigger due to gameplay reasons. the city was big enough to house all three clans at their peak and and stretches from the mountain peak to the very depths.

What we can’t see also holds true for Grim Batol and Shadowforge equally. They’re all much bigger and deeper then we see in game. Even Aerie Peak is a lot deeper into the Mountain then it appears to be. Not as deep below the mountain but still inside.