Outlaw will be insane in 9.1
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Outlaw needs A actual burst damage or B Sustain damage that out performs sin rogue.
This is never going to happen because it would significantly bust Outlaw in pve.
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They have separate balancing
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It’s cute that you think so.
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If they buff a spec in pve that buff will translate into pvp. But they tune spells individually all the time in pvp.
Honestly, a PvP talent to make SnD passive is huge and all it really would “need”. Though, since there’s no Subterfuge, some extra defensive options (passive–not active) would help offset the defensive loss visavis all the Sub/Sin resets.
Have you paid attention to the PTR?
Control is king makes cheap shot proc a 15s SnD
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No, it’s too depressing to watch.
Thanks for the hat tip though. Not sure how a 15s off CS equals passive… But a step in a positive direction. It also removes Ambush from being used in the kit, and CS grants only 1 CP… Ehhh… So is this like… A sub talent then? That’s Outlaw only?
Then stop complaining. Like this is an oxymoron
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I see Float is a nice bonus for the Feint DR.
But, Control is King would be perfect if I could rely on Grand Melee. Instead, I’ll be sitting in stealth rolling for a decent init.
It’s not a complaint – it is what it is. This is not a passive SnD; and the insinuation that it would be is intellectually dishonest.
Its a passive SnD because you arent pressing SnD
But im not to argue something so insignificant compared to the slew of changes outlaw is getting.
20% increased stam and sin strike proc chance
100% bladeflurry cleave in PvP
Zero CD feint, low cd evasion.
Control is King removing a slew of ramp
Various pvp talent QoL changes
Not sure what game you’re playing sitting in stealth praying for 1 of the 2 worst roll buffs or complaining when you havent looked at the changes anyway
Curious why you’re so caught up with SnD? One of the biggest things with outlaw in PvP is that its openers dont do anything because you have 3 buffs to keep up so you have negative tempo when the match starts.
Granted outlaw really isnt about huge burst openers but regardless as a rogue the opener sets the pace. Being able to immediately between the eyes or not be energy starved off a MfD kidney is a massive boon.
Respect it. Thank you.
Do you think this will have good pairing into healer teams and 3s? I’m trying to figure out best case for this over Smoke Bomb or Maneuverability. Best I can see is competition with Float like a Butterfly…
Could be neat–what was the talent?
I think I missed this when I was trying to look through Wowhead.
Because SnD makes and breaks Outlaw. Exactly to your point, a few moments in, you can probably manage your SnD usage cleanly, but I’m not sure it’s ever worth losing the burst potential, at least in PvP where managing uptime is a really big deal. To me, it’s like Sub with no Eviscerate. Except Outlaw also has to fight with Dispatch and a fraction of the utility setups that notably Sub can enable. Since Sin can maintain DoT uptime without worrying as much about melee dps uptime (which is range factored), Sin again is more generally enabled.
I saw a lot of your view on Pistol Shot builds, and hoping you can help fill me in on the amount of damage you expect to see off a good Pistol Burst.
Edit: Nevermind, I found one post…
That’s basically what Deadshot was doing in BFA, so I can see some value, but I had some issues with timing alignment during BFA and in the burst meta of SL, I’m afraid I’ll just be a priority target and fall over before the stars align and allow the go.
I feel like enduring brawler is gonna be mandatory for the most part. The extra stam warrants you being a rogue that brawls and isnt a stealth guy or a dot guy who runs. And the sin strike proc chance is massive to enable certain legendaries, and consistant combo pt generation.
It’s just overall really solid.
Bladeflurry just does 100% in PvP rather than the 40% in PvE. It was just an out right buff/hidden aura that Blizz is applying to the spell itself.
Yea so you just cheap shot to get it rolling early and then you can be lazy like me and use ruthlessness left over combo pt to keep it up.
I generally only aim for 2-3pt SnD and thats easy to manage. But even then im only really concerned with SnD uptime for extra energy. The melee damage and main gauche procs are good for sure during downtime but I’m mostly worried about setting up my big pistol shots.
Eh thats the thing, I think it will be a bad call to train an Outlaw rogue. Spec has increased Hp, a ton of mobility, low cd vanish, low cd evasion. Outside of stuns you’re tankier than a lot specs.
I’ve been loving Take your cut, not sure if its a bug but slice and dice also procs it.
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If they just made dreadblades a buff and not a weapon strike that consumes a GCD we could have almost been in luck
But sadly blizzard haven’t ever used that talent and it half kills us when we use it
Bring back Mace Speciality. Each white attack has 6% chance to stun your target for 3 seconds!
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Stop trying to make an obvious pve spec into a viable pvp spec.
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I think your idea/inclination to grand melee would be really good if Control is King gave a strong Grand Melee buff (15-20s) that can’t be replaced by reg roll the bones.
Kinda busted? Maybe but would feel a lot sleeker and lead to better rolls
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Like supatease has said it just needs more damage and it would be alright.
Assassination is going to be the king of kings of PVP in patch 9.1. And for Sub? No one knows until the dust settles with whatever BlizZard decides to do with PVP gear scaling.
I Don’t expect outlaw to be hyper meta or outpace zugsassin. Its just a fun spec to me.
Supa also said outlaw should have thief’s bargain when it already has restless blades and float like a butterfly 
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